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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Apr 2012 : 21:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Not entirely foolproof either - there are elves... 
-For everything that has happened, the planet has been far from being destroyed.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
It's a very good solution, but not completely foolproof either.
-Of course. Nothing is completely foolproof. Leaving it unprotected (relatively speaking) and far from sight runs it's own risks, just as carrying it on their person does. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2012 : 10:54:25
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Originally posted by TBeholder
Did she say it's supposed to be possession? Because there's always Fiendform (old Thayan spell, at that) and someone may want to try it via a permanent item, even based on a phylactery. Why not?
Actually fiendform only can allow a sort of polymorph into fiends only. If attempting lichdom, you would be a fiend-lich |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12006 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 18:13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Hi everyone. Wow it has been quite a while since I have graced the halls of Candlekeep and this is a little something that has been on my mind for quite a while. My favourite creature is of course the Lich. Something about the quest for immortality whatever the cost, to exist forever, unless adventurers come calling, somewhat pulls at my mortality.
After rereading Gauntlgrym, especially segments about Arklem Greeth or rather his phylactery, I was wondering why hasn't he come back, by all necromantic means, in one to ten days he would surely have regrown a new body to inhabit, so what gives?! (Also the whole Robillard using the Shocking Grasp spell to kill him was a bit bogus)
P.S This scroll can be used to ask anything about liches, their types, ecology etc. Knowing as they say is half the transformation into one, to paraphrase from my point of view. Enjoy
I love liches, but I will say, the one thing that I really feel was a disservice was the change from 2E to 3E where they reformed from nothing a few days later. Granted in 2E their phylacteries could be anywhere in the world, which has its own issues, but at least they had to have made preparations to provide a body to come back in, etc... Destroying a lich should be hard, but it should also be rewarding that they're not just going to come back a few days later with a vengeance. There needs to be a happy medium between "you won't ever find the phylactery" and "he has to tote his phylactery with him, but he'll return soon... unless the party reaches in his pocket to find the phylactery". I am being a little facetious with the previous, but hopefully you get my point. I actually developed a spell called "phylactery link" I think, and the gist was that if you had the remains of the lich, you could use the spell to make the bones work somewhat like a compass to lead you to the phylactery (making that into another little quest). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12006 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 18:25:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
A wish or miracle should be able to recreate a destroyed phylactory. However, I'm not sure what would happen to the spirit of the Lich once it has reached its 'final reward'.
In other words, if a phylactory is destroyed, then the lich's spirit should go to wherever it would have gone if the living mage had not become a lich, and depending on where that was, may not be able to return, even if the phylactory is somehow repaired.
Also, I think the lich automatically reforms solid (in the lich form), and there is no 'mental state' the creature is in before it reforms, and therefor could not possibly delay its own return.
UNLESS this was a condition set-up as part of the original lich-creating ritual. I would also assume that the spellplague could have caused any manner of variable effects (once again, making it the perfect universal McGuffin), which means a destroyed phylactoiry laying on the floor of a dungeon may become 'energized' and the lich brought back (perhaps in some new, mutated form).
Arklem Greeth may have been one of those under-powered liches (his creation-ritual, anyway) that took a full decade to return, and the spellplague may have warped the magic of that as well (which means the character can be re-invented as anything else, at any time in the future).
I got this cool picture in my mind of him reforming after eight years (eight being tied to chaos... or whatever..), and just as he is reforming, the cerulean wave rolls over him and he screams, "NOOoooooooo !!!" Then you just do whatever you want with him. 
Question: Could the Silver Surfer have ridden the cerulean Wave? 
Or more importantly, since he doesn't have toes, does he only "hang two"?
Actually, given their ties to the negative material plane, it could be that the spirit becomes "burned up" and doesn't go onto it normal final reward. There's probably examples that can be brought up to the contrary, but... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12006 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 18:29:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Each lich has to discover the process himself so although liches and their phylacteries are fairly uniform they are also each unique. There's always a few who fall outside the norm, some attain lichdom which is flawed or superior or involves tradeoffs.
Besides, Arklem Greeth may have indeed "come back", or he might do so at some future time - just not within the scope of the story told within the Gauntlgrym novel. It could be explained as simply as a phylactery which teleports itself to a safe location. Or Arklem might be the kind of lich which requires possession of a nearby living or dead body to reform, the heroes could've left before Arklem was ready or they could have successfully resisted possession attempts without even knowing it.
Perhaps Arklem was killed by a lowly shocking grasp because he was an inferior lich, nerfing the opposition for "balanced encounters" is a popular DM tool these days. But perhaps Arklem faked his own death and escaped, opportunistically using that harmless attack as a distracting pretense - Robillard and his allies might have only activated a contingency which made Arklem invisible while his programmed illusion painted a convincing death scene. For all we know, Arklem could have (and would have) easily zorched the interloping heroes, but by faking his own death and dispensing of some surplus treasure he purchased a few centuries of uninterrupted privacy before more bands of annoying heroes trespass and assault him. (It's what I would do.)
Besides, we already know that FR novels frequently hinge around fine details which aren't required to follow the D&D game rules. Quite the opposite: new game rules are usually invented to explain and formalize how things happen in the novels so that legions of PCs can emulate their heroes. (I would prefer to emulate the villains, but oh well.)
Interesting, so a lich was slain by electricity, which they're immune to? Granted, yeah, maybe he was "a different kind of lich"... but its kind of cheesy. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 18:37:27
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Interesting, so a lich was slain by electricity, which they're immune to? Granted, yeah, maybe he was "a different kind of lich"... but its kind of cheesy.
No. He was attacked by a variety of spells, including electricity/lightning. We don't really know which type of spell killed him--er, destroyed his body and disembodied his spirit. As I posted above, when you read the passage, the electric spells leap out at you on the pages, but the fine print actually indicates that Robillard used a whole slew of different spells on Greeth.
But yes, Greeth was still very, very cheesy. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 18:45:28
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Interesting discussion guys! Loving it.
I was always bothered that Shandril's groups never went after the phylacteries of the 3(?) Dracoliches she slew, and it was assumed by the Cultist these dragons were dead forever. That made no sense to me. At least in one of the 3rd Edition books (Dragons of Faerun) they talked about how those dracoliches were actually still alive and one in particular had possessed a newt to find a new dragon body to reform. Kind of consider lack of mention of the phylacteries one of the few weaknesses of Ed's writing in those books (although they were edited to heck).
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12006 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 19:08:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Hmm, it almost seems like the best "protected" location for a phylactery would be under the floorstones in a mausoleum or, if on a budget, buried a few feet under an empty coffin in an unmarked grave in a crowded cemetary. Always plenty of bodies around, protected from trespass by the squeamish sentiments of the living. I suppose there's a bit of risk of necromancers detecting such a phylactery while looking for corpses ... smart ones would probably leave it undisturbed and go elsewhere.
I've always thought that all a lich would need to do is hide his phylactery in the wall. Shield it from magical detection, put an open area in a stone or entirely wall off an area... If the lich does it when constructing the keep/tower, or if he has ways of making sure the new wall matches the existing construction, then any attackers will have no reason to assume there's anything on the other side of the wall. There is no need for elaborate protections when it's not where someone would think to look for it.
Sometimes, a phylactery emanates too much magical energy that makes it easy to detect, especially by capable wizards. And even if you conceal it with magic, the same energy (which would be in considerable amount, given the thing it's suppose to cover) would be obvious to those who know what to look for...
I suggest the lich hides it in his own pocket universe. Or maybe in the depths of the Sea of Fallen Stars.
The idea of shielding against magical detection is why I made my phylactery link spell. It simply follows the existing connection to the phylactery. Conceivably, one could even develop a spell to use the existing conduit between the physical body and the phylactery to even scry back to the area where the phylactery is. Naturally, this link should degrade over time after the lich is "killed", such that you'd have to use these spells fairly soon after killing said lich (for instance, I'd say in rules form that the time needed to attune to a new body would be the proper "decay" time of this link). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2475 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 20:15:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
just about everyone tries to probe for secret passages and stashes, especially in a spellcaster's home [...] This also runs into question about limitations: large irregularities are vulnerable to mundane sounding.
I'm not talking about a secret passage. I'm talking about hiding it within a solid rock wall. PCs aren't going to look for something in physically inaccessible areas.
I thought that secret passages and storages are something not obvious as accessible. Kind of by definition.  As in, someone have to check the place for irregularities. And since the most expected secret items include jewelry, wands, small books and hidden mechanisms activating a passage somewhere else, areas apparently unsuitable for human passage aren't excluded at all.
So the only way to escape it is to have a phylactery baked into a clay brick without being damaged and make it sound as a part of the brick and not a piece of different density at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner
That said, such magics change and evolve over time. So just as Nulathoe's Ninemon may have replaced the overly complex and expensive preserving magic that Liches like Larloch and Aumvor used. This method may well be replaced by other variant spells or rituals by individuals or virtue of time.
Or use larvae. But then, no reason why not to craft an "always triggered" item (whether integral or additional) re-casting a preservation spell upon recharge, once per day or month. Or draining fish and leeches swimming in a nearby river little by little. And so on.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Not entirely foolproof either - there are elves...
-For everything that has happened, the planet has been far from being destroyed.
They crumbled Faerun a little, that all.  My point, though, is that there was Borka (in Greyspace)... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 12 Apr 2012 20:17:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2012 : 21:07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
just about everyone tries to probe for secret passages and stashes, especially in a spellcaster's home [...] This also runs into question about limitations: large irregularities are vulnerable to mundane sounding.
I'm not talking about a secret passage. I'm talking about hiding it within a solid rock wall. PCs aren't going to look for something in physically inaccessible areas.
I thought that secret passages and storages are something not obvious as accessible. Kind of by definition. As in, someone have to check the place for irregularities. And since the most expected secret items include jewelry, wands, small books and hidden mechanisms activating a passage somewhere else, areas apparently unsuitable for human passage aren't excluded at all.
So the only way to escape it is to have a phylactery baked into a clay brick without being damaged and make it sound as a part of the brick and not a piece of different density at all.
Referring to it as a secret passage or storage implies it's something that can be accessed -- that there is some mechanism that allows one to get to the area. I'm talking about using some means to entomb the phylactery in solid rock. I'm speaking of leaving no visible signs that there is anything there, and no means of reaching it short of magic or physically destroying the wall. If it is shrouded from magical discovery, physically inaccessible, and there is nothing to indicate there might be something within the wall, then no one is going to look there -- unless you have a group that randomly destroys walls and such. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 03:53:30
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner
That said, such magics change and evolve over time. So just as Nulathoe's Ninemon may have replaced the overly complex and expensive preserving magic that Liches like Larloch and Aumvor used. This method may well be replaced by other variant spells or rituals by individuals or virtue of time.
Or use larvae. But then, no reason why not to craft an "always triggered" item (whether integral or additional) re-casting a preservation spell upon recharge, once per day or month. Or draining fish and leeches swimming in a nearby river little by little. And so on.
I imagine some sort auto-re-casting of preservation spells is what characters like Larloch use, but then, I couldn't really begin to speculate on Liches of his power with any accuracy. |
Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 04:12:17
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Again, I'm simplifying ... but assuming a supra-genius lich has somehow hidden his phylactery in the ultimate spot, where no one (normal) would ever look, shielded from detections and divinations, a masterwork disguised as the mundane, behind five feet of solid granite, obscured by several false phylacteries ...
0) Most importantly - the heroes are always provided some means of killing a villlainous lich. No matter how contrived it might seem, the requirements of the story are always met. An endless series of modules and novels about the many almost-deaths of a lich would get tiresome pretty quick. And you'd think the heroes would get it right after a number of botched jobs, or that they would at least help out the next wave of heroes.
1) Many of the lich's visitors arrive with the very specific purpose of hunting and destroying the lich. They make it a priority to find the phylactery, sometimes determined enough to tear the entire place down stone by stone - and they can get more than 1d10 days if they're willing to keep killing the lich.
2) There are always means of attaining knowledge which exceed the norm ... there are immortal and extra-planar powers who know things (or can find things out), there are seers and oracles whose divinations can penetrate any shield, there are countless living wizards and other liches who might have sufficient craft and cunning to find any phylactery.
3) Most liches require a corpse or living person to possess within 10' of their phylactery. The lich can cache some dead (or undead) bodies near his phylactery - along with the means for it to egress, since he doesn't want to spend decades trying to punch through a thick stone wall. Such a lich wouldn't want his soul to languish indefinitely because nobody knows or ever visits the deserted island where his phylactery is located.
Alternately, the lich might fashion a phylactery as a marvelously valuable magic item which people find attractive. One example is a dracolich whose phylactery is basically a powerful and helpful sword of dragon slaying, thus ensuring a fresh dragon body will soon be available to inhabit and the adventurers will carry the phylactery far away on their subsequent wanderings. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Apr 2012 04:16:45 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 04:35:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Alternately, the lich might fashion a phylactery as a marvelously valuable magic item which people find attractive. One example is a dracolich whose phylactery is basically a powerful and helpful sword of dragon slaying, thus ensuring a fresh dragon body will soon be available to inhabit and the adventurers will carry the phylactery far away on their subsequent wanderings.
That got me to thinking: what if these sentient evil swords of Bob's--Khazi-hea and Charon's Claw--said to have spirits within, were actually phylacteries of some sort of liches? Might all or most sentient weapons and artifacts be a type of phylactery, housing some spirit for all eternity, thereby cheating death, similarly to a lich? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 05:20:27
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That would mean the lich in question would only be interested in fighting with swords and getting Drizzt to wield it.
Still dracoliches are a prime example of a lich returning to unlife. It can only possess corpses and is seemingly unable to return 1d10 days later... so why not make all liches follow a similar rule. They can only come back if they possess a corpse and have to wait 1d10 days for their permanencied magic to return to full function.
If you are still bent on the 1d10 reappearing thing ok we can do that too. You have to at least have a single spell from 0-9 level memorized and you expend them to come back in a single day. If you only have a 9th level spell memorized you have to wait 9 days, a 0 level spell you have to wait 10 days... what do you guys think? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2475 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2012 : 12:58:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Referring to it as a secret passage or storage implies it's something that can be accessed [...] If it is shrouded from magical discovery, physically inaccessible, and there is nothing to indicate there might be something within the wall, then no one is going to look there -- unless you have a group that randomly destroys walls and such.
You see, to me, a secret passage or storage is something that can be accessed, but has nothing to indicate this fact. Or it won't be "secret" as such. Hence the necessity of active checking to find one. Not limited to (or even starting with) magic - mundane sounding of all surfaces (floors are no less traditional hiding places) is a typical solution.
In some natural cave systems, put one more loose stone deep into a drain too narrow for humanoids, between others, and it will indeed take about half of forever to find.
In a building, not so easy: much greater regularity of structure is expected, and the searching party is likely to seek deviations. And if it's all made too weird and rough, everyone starts to ask why.
BTW a good hidden lab place: behind a cave-in and some inedible predator's lair, in tunnels with small, but constant traffic of savage humanoids. Locals won't dig, are not much of a threat themselves, but will have any interloper trapped between pets of lich and a siege - not good for logistics, or doing anything meaningful at all. Fresh corpses are provided regularly in the way not raising any suspicions. To stay there and search for the phylactery the opponents need to enter, beat the owner, destroy all possess-able remnants (even not readily seen as such), re-seal the whole place to stop attacks (despite contingencies like earth elementals and/or cave-ins), keep air breathable, use teleport to go in and out - can be done, but very hard.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
0) Most importantly - the heroes are always provided some means of killing a villlainous lich.
If it got stats?..
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
1) Many of the lich's visitors arrive with the very specific purpose of hunting and destroying the lich. They make it a priority to find the phylactery, sometimes determined enough to tear the entire place down stone by stone - and they can get more than 1d10 days if they're willing to keep killing the lich.
Yup. That's also a very good reason to choose the place which can't be peeled like an onion at the enemies' leisure once our lich is down. A small island may make one a sitting duck if the hunters did their homework with (2), but also may have a great advantage if it's covered with each high tide and waters hold some really nasty lifeforms. Even better if a lich can possess these. Then there's no need to keep dead remnants around and the opponent would have to not just stop beach-combing, but stay underwater and guess which shark or crab is possessed before it quietly scuttled away and got itself polymorphed into something more suitable for another spell-fight...
By the way, even if it's done sloppily, crabs occasionally polymorphing into humans provides fresh bodies. Just add a "proof" of pirate activity on the next island over. At worst, this may attract random treasure-seekers, but these tend to be ill prepared for running into a lich.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
2) There are always means of attaining knowledge which exceed the norm ... there are immortal and extra-planar powers who know things (or can find things out), there are seers and oracles whose divinations can penetrate any shield,
Yup. Things like contact other plane / commune are not straightforward detection spells fooled by straightforward shielding.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The lich can cache some dead (or undead) bodies near his phylactery - along with the means for it to egress, since he doesn't want to spend decades trying to punch through a thick stone wall. Such a lich wouldn't want his soul to languish indefinitely because nobody knows or ever visits the deserted island where his phylactery is located.
Aye. I mentioned a "necessary minimum" for such a strategy. Only more notion: liches normally have enough power to get spare bodies not merely preserved, but also transformed - not obvious as bodies. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 05:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
That would mean the lich in question would only be interested in fighting with swords and getting Drizzt to wield it.
A fighter lich?
Seriously, though, it appears like most liches base their choice of phyllactery both on practicality and vanity, sometimes with more emphasis on the latter. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 14 Apr 2012 07:32:10 |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 07:18:45
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You are going to exist forever at the very least you have to make your phylactery very nice and blinged up.
What do you guys think of my idea for lich returning, having at least one spell for each spell level, expending them to return... |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 19:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
That would mean the lich in question would only be interested in fighting with swords and getting Drizzt to wield it.
A fighter lich?
-A Gish (Fighter/Magician) Lich could exist and possibly be it's own kind of thing. If, in 2e, Bardic Liches were differentiated from other Liches, why not? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2012 : 19:36:52
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A Gich?
Only if we call her 'Lady Marmalade'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 02:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
That would mean the lich in question would only be interested in fighting with swords and getting Drizzt to wield it.
 Um . . . why?
Just because the lich chose a sword to serve as his phylactery doesn't necessarily mean that he would want to fight with swords, or to end up in Drizzt's hands. That Zhengyi and Greeth chose crystal skulls as their phylacteries doesn't mean that they only wanted to be skulls, or to serve as anatomy models in biology classrooms, or to be posted on people's front lawns during Halloween!
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
You are going to exist forever at the very least you have to make your phylactery very nice and blinged up.
I am imagining "I Dream of Genie's" magic lamp bachelorette pad.
Mmm . . . old-school Barbara Eden! |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 08:14:47
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If you became a lich, would you want a alias/title/honorific like Aumvor has the Undying, Larloch the Shadowking/Ultra-Lich.
What would your's be, i am thinking along the lines of something original but am stumped... |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 16:59:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
If you became a lich, would you want a alias/title/honorific like Aumvor has the Undying, Larloch the Shadowking/Ultra-Lich.
What would your's be, i am thinking along the lines of something original but am stumped...
Frehd the Lich-not-worth-bothering-with. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 21:45:24
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Haha.
Norm the Normal.
That reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live skit in which Phil Hartman advertised this car with a behemoth hooptie exterior, but a luxury automobile interior, all on the premise that nobody would ever suspect you or mess with it.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 05:33:29
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| For me I am thinking of "the Archmage Everlasting" what do you guys think? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 19:09:45
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I have a query that has recently come up in my campaign....Were-lich?
Can a Lycanthropic creature become a Lich? or does death result in a true return to their orginal form (therefore curse ending where Lich begins)?
I can't see anything that would directly suggest not but I'm curious about the Lycanthopy 'curse' and whether it would persist beyond death? I understand Liches are not subject to diseases...but I thought that lycanthropy was more akin to a magical curse than disease. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Eagerly anticipatng scholarly help. |
Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 19:39:22
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| It's your world. If you want lycanthropic liches to be possible, then they're possible. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 21:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner
I have a query that has recently come up in my campaign....Were-lich?
Can a Lycanthropic creature become a Lich? or does death result in a true return to their orginal form (therefore curse ending where Lich begins)?
I can't see anything that would directly suggest not but I'm curious about the Lycanthopy 'curse' and whether it would persist beyond death? I understand Liches are not subject to diseases...but I thought that lycanthropy was more akin to a magical curse than disease. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Eagerly anticipatng scholarly help.
This got me to thinking: what exactly makes a lich's body rotten? If the lich links his spirit to his phylactery shortly after death, then the body shouldn't have much time to experience decay. So is the body then subject to decay from that point forwards, just [like] a normal corpse?
If so--if a lich's physical form is subject to microorganisms biodegrading that form--then it would seem to me that the body should be subject to a lycanthropic infection, as well. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 16 Apr 2012 23:33:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 21:49:58
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Markus the Mage-nificent.
As a lich?
Simply call me 'Enigma'.
I was thinking "Markabre the Mystifying", but it sounds too 'Vegas head-liner'.
If your a lich, I think an honorific like "... the macabre" is a bit redundant (as is "... the unholy"). I had also considered "... the unsavory", but that has certain connotations I don't care for.
Anyhow, I figured going for 'unknown element' was a little scarier then an honorific that simply stated you were a powerful lich - I think that should be automatic (have you ever heard of a weak lich... I mean aside from Arklem Greeth?)
EDIT: I like Wooly's as well - its a great name to hide-behind. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Apr 2012 21:52:01 |
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Need to Know: The Lich
