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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 16:22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Perhaps one of the liches in the Realms is a were-lich, human by day, lich by night??
For that matter, does a lich crave the company of the living?
I like that concept of a Lich and I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two of those wandering Faerun as we speak.
The psychology of a Lich is quite a fascinating topic and the single-mindedness or insanity that seems ingrained into a Lich may be a way of coping with their undead nature. The games and plots they hatch among the living are long-term goals that divert them from what they have become. Boredom is death for a Lich. So I'd say company is small drop of a much wider diversion...part of whatever quest they are undertaking as they take control of a kingdom, develop new spells or unearth an ancient secret.
I quite like these two insights into the mind of a Lich from Van Richten's guide...
quote:
Imagine not having to sleep or eat. When night comes, there is no effect upon you. You need no light to see, nor a moon to sleep under.
You do not eat, so your sense of taste is worthless to you. Your sense of smell is gone with your mortality. Lacking skin, you cannot feel things as do mortals. And, as I have previously speculated, sight (and probably hearing as well) is no more aesthetic to a lich than a wall is to a bat. All the senses, with all the pleasure they may afford, are gone, so you have nothing stimulating to look forward to at the end of the day-no ale after a long journey, no fresh meat after a good hunt, no scent of your home as you enter it, no sweet caress of a child or lover to comfort you. Can power or evil wash away the appreciation of these things?
Time loses meaning. Days become longer, shorter, then altogether meaningless. Each day becomes the same, with the concept of time a vague memory. All that is for you is only your own self. You may monitor the outside world, sometimes very closely, but it is easy to lose track of what progresses outside your lair when you neglect to peer outside a window for a decade, favoring instead to research a new-found text or create a particular amalgamation. What if you sat down to read a book, then looked up from it a generation later, when there was no one alive to recognize, no peers with which to debate a fine point?
quote:
I was alone in my study, conducting some meditation, when I happened upon a secluded mind.
I say ‘Secluded” because I do not think it meant of itself to be heard by someone such as me. Nevertheless, I saw what its mind generated. I looked into the eternal despair which utterly gripped it, until all it could think of was a final death where there would be no pain, where everything would finally, mercifully end.
I was moved to weep for this poor soul, but then I caught just a glimpse of what this creature truly was and I was instantly repulsed. I had that night accidentally looked into the mind of a lich. I doubt I will ever again see such pain or
despair...or evil.
-From the journal of Kilrinia Trynar, master of
the mental arts
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Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 18:48:34
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The most basic psychology of the lich is that they have chosen to extend their 'life' because of some 'purpose' - its more like an obsession, really.
I suppose if the Lich was social outcast who never found exceptance, then 'making friends' might be its obsession (although that would be really weird, and seems more like something an incorporeal undead would 'be into').
I am currently working on a model of having all undead be part of the same 'family' (rules-wise). It just seems to me that at very high levels, the powers/abilities/immunities of these 'ArchUndead' overlap, like Vampires, Liches, Ancient dead (Mummies), etc, etc... we've even seen canon examples of unique and fully sentient (and clever) ghoul-lords and Wights. The method of them becoming undead may all be different, but in the end it appears they can 'level' (gain experience) and better themselves.
Thus, 'unlife' takes on a life of its own.
I also do not believe a person who is already a lich can become a lycanthrope (I agree with Wooly that the recipient MUST be alive for the curse/infection to take hold), but I also believe it is theoretically possible for a lycanthrope mage to become a lich, and maybe continue to use its lycanthropic abilities (if some strange 'magic surge' altered the normal process).
On the other hand, I just thought of a great (unique) monster - a werewolf lich that is in constant agony because of its own regenerative powers. After all, adding HP to any undead does damage, right? It would be similar to vampire-illithids - he would become a feral, unthinking creatures (while in wolf/hybrid forms). Perhaps its obsession should be to find a cure (to lycanthropy) to end its torment. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Apr 2012 18:50:34 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 20:10:54
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DM: "You have defeated the mage, who was really an insane silver dragon named Argent Frostburn. You can see that a hammered ribbon of silver is engraved like a helix around the entire length of his staff of the archmagi. A rampant dragon design is boldly emblazoned on his robe of the archmagi in silver thread. He was also wearing silver bracers, a gem-studded silver circlet, and a glowing silver ring. A pair of silver-studded wands and a magnificent silver longsword are sheathed on his leather belt. In his leather backpack you see several hundred silver coins."
PC (werelich): *sigh* "I'll just take the leather belt and backpack, careful not to touch any of that silver stuff. Also, I check for wolfsbane and moonbeam traps again." |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Apr 2012 20:21:34 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 20:45:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
D&D defines lycanthropy as categorically unnatural; it is a magical affliction, governed by curses and lunar phases - not bacteria and microbes.
Where do you get that notion that it's categorically unnatural?
MM I (1E) says that lycanthropy is a disease and infection spread by bite. It can sometimes be cured, early on, through the use of the medicinal herb belladona.
MM I (3.5E) says that lycanthropy is spread like a disease, through wounds, causing the affliction.
Biting someone and giving them a disease is a natural phenomenon. It's germ theory/infection. There's nothing magical about that. There's certainly nothing "categorically unnatural" about it.
Furthermore, MM I (3.5E) goes on to say that lycanthropy can be inherited from one's parents, making it a physical trait passed through the blood (genetics).
Lycanthropy may have originated through magical means, eons ago. But it is, now, a physical, natural malady (in the Realms).
quote:
[... N]atural dead things left in their natural state are simply ... dead.
This is untrue. The bodies of human beings are actually complex combinations of many different systems that all work together. Just because one or some might become defective or terminated does not automatically mean that all of the other systems immediately become defective or terminated. Just because the soul/spirit departs the body, or the electrical spark of the nervous system ceases to function (whichever you prefer), does not mean that there is an instantaneous stop to the action of the biological and chemical processes within the cells, including the motion of mitochondria, cellular division and multiplication/reproduction, the transfer of fluids and solutes through vessels and across membranes, etc. The person may be dead with the loss of the spirit/electrical spark, but individual components or systems of the physical body go on living for quite some time.
And it is precisely these components/systems of the physical body which become infected by lycan bite with the disease of lycanthropy. It isn't the soul or spark--it's the flesh. Lycanthropy works because the physical flesh propagates the disease throughout a victim's body--it doesn't work because the soul/spark consciously wills it to.
So when a lich's living soul/spark departs its body, and then the soul returns thereto without the former electrical spark, the physical body is subject to the same processes of lycanthropy propagation as a normal living person's body. Without a beating heart to push blood through blood vessels, the propagation of the disease would surely be severely slowed, but the basic material of disease propagation would still be in place.
If a corpse can propagate the microbes that cause decay and decomp, then a corpse can propagate the microbes behind lycanthropy, too. It's really that simple.
(This is beginning to sound an awful lot like Star Wars'a midochlorians . . .  ) |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 20:59:53
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| Me, I prefer dead things to be dead, and undead things like liches to be animated only through unnatural means. I also prefer to keep lycanthropy and undeath very separate, so the simple truth is that no amount of explanation will ever bring things like wereliches and werevampires to my table ... but if all that pseudoscience makes you happy then go ahead and have fun with it, your Realms are not less valid than mine. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 21:07:02
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I have to wonder if another type of unique undead could be created, if someone is killed before the Lycan-curse (or disease) 'runs its course'.
Ergo, you die (after receiving a bite from werecritter), and a few hours later you 'revive' thanks to the disease/curses curative effects... but you are still 'dead inside'.
Then again, that sounds more like how zombie werewolves are made. You can't make a lich with a simple resurrection spell.
I never really considered that point before - any creature with regen can 'come back', so they were technically dead, so why aren't any of them undead? It seems like that bypasses both the rules for undead and need for a rez spell.
I could also see torturing a lich (or other undead) simply by placing a ring of healing on its finger (or one on each hand).
What happens if you burned a cross (holy symbol in D&D) into the chest of a vamp? Would they be in pain forever? The burn shouldn't be able to heal, right?
For that matter, why does any archmage attempt to become a lich? Isn't becoming a vampire so much easier (and at least allows you to retain the semblance of life)? Seems to me, if I had a choice, I certainly wouldn't want to be a moldy ol' skeleton with skin. Vamps are sexy. If its because of the weaknesses, there are a bunch of spells magically-inclined vamps can use to get around them. Are liches unaffected by sunlight? If so, thats a bit weird (but I'd still rather be a vamp). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Apr 2012 21:07:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 22:00:55
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Lycanthropy works because the physical flesh propagates the disease throughout a victim's body--it doesn't work because the soul/spark consciously wills it to.
And that propagation requires bloodflow. Which doesn't happen in liches. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2012 : 22:04:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I never really considered that point before - any creature with regen can 'come back', so they were technically dead, so why aren't any of them undead? It seems like that bypasses both the rules for undead and need for a rez spell.
Regeneration has limitations, and usually won't function past a specific point -- 0 hp, I believe, or maybe -10 hp.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
For that matter, why does any archmage attempt to become a lich? Isn't becoming a vampire so much easier (and at least allows you to retain the semblance of life)? Seems to me, if I had a choice, I certainly wouldn't want to be a moldy ol' skeleton with skin. Vamps are sexy. If its because of the weaknesses, there are a bunch of spells magically-inclined vamps can use to get around them. Are liches unaffected by sunlight? If so, thats a bit weird (but I'd still rather be a vamp).
Most liches aren't concerned with being sexy. Most aren't sexy before embracing undeath... Liches are immune to sunlight, unlike vampires (vampires are one of the few flavors of undead affected by sunlight, actually), and liches don't need to feed. You also can't permanently kill a lich with a lucky hit from a #2 pencil. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2012 : 12:14:38
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I think that liches in a way "can" be sexy, instead of saying are not sexy. I mean you have existed for millenias and there is that oh so pretty mage who is being charmed by other potential mage suitors. Casting spells of illusion and transmutation you make you way towards the mage and perhaps intellect alone will win the heart of the mage.
Besides you have a virtual eternity to learn sexy, plane shift to another world learning street dancing, breakdance and you will be the life of the party. Learn parkour and in a medieval setting you are able to outrun the swiftest paladin or priest.
And the possibility of a werelich is somewhat cloudy, I think biologically its impossible, magically then yes. After all take Valindra Shadowmantle and how she became a lich. Greeth poured the elixir of transformation down her throat and she sputtered back to life. Perhaps a lich wanders, finds a dying werewolf and gives it a dose just to see what would happen? Perhaps lich necromancers have experimented with such things and we do not even know about it? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2012 : 13:09:52
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quote:
Wooly Rupert
... liches don't need to feed. You also can't permanently kill a lich with a lucky hit from a #2 pencil.
Although there aren't any specific rules about this, Van Richten's Guide to the Lich suggests that liches are sustained by their constant exposure to magic. If they are denied all ability to study, research, or cast spells and magics of any kind then they begin to slowly decay - it's just that their inhumanly manic focus on mastery and accumulation of magical power means you aren't likely to ever find such starved liches.
While true that liches cannot be slain by lucky pencil impalement or sunlight, they do still have vulnerabilities. Losing their phylacteries can be fatal. Being featured in any RAS storyline means any or all of their powers and immunities will completely fail them at the worst possible moment. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 08:00:50
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Which is why I find RLB work of liches much more interesting or even Ed Greenwood, though he does not feature as many liches as I would like.(Maybe he has done more but I am unaware of it, could you guys help out by listing some?)
Moreover I don't think they need to constantly practice their magic, the necromancy that made them into liches seem to sustain them very well.
On another note what do you think of other races and lichdom? How does that work out? What are the repercussions or benefits once they attained lichdom, in terms of self and community? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 12:17:25
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Elves find undeath especially repugnant, and (aside from PCs) the rare few elven liches are typically baelnorns.
Classic gnomes could only be illusionists and were thus completely barred from necromancy and lichdom.
Classic dwarves couldn't be wizards at all, although sometimes ancient and unique "clerical lich" sorts of dwarves would be found scattered throughout various modules.
There are also Baneliches, probably other clerical liches, psionic liches ... plus of course demiliches, pseudoliches, shadowliches, dracoliches, and all the rest. Lich templates can be applied to any living sentient. I would personally favour some race-unique qualities, as was done for vampires in Ravenloft, but not carried to D&D's usually ridiculous "one of everything" extremes. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 14:56:34
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| Shadowliches? Would that be the Akalich from Immortals? I read about those and they are extremely "gouda" I mean they are at least powerful enought to combat a god, but I think that on the whole, they made much more sense than the other creatures in the beastiary. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 16:18:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Shadowliches? Would that be the Akalich from Immortals? I read about those and they are extremely "gouda" I mean they are at least powerful enought to combat a god, but I think that on the whole, they made much more sense than the other creatures in the beastiary.
I assume he means an Arch-Shadow or Demi-shade. These are created when a Phylactery is ruptured during the process of becoming a Lich. There is a slim (5%) chance of the aspiring Lich becoming an arch-shadow by tying their soul to a moderate to powerful neaby magic item (such as sword or ring etc). The Demi-shade is a matured form of the arch-shadow and slightly more powerful.
If not, then I'm quite interested in what he's referring to...maybe a Shadow weave based lich...or a Lich who's shadow is their phylactery (which sounds quite cool). Got my brain-a-thinkin' now.  |
Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 02:50:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Elves find undeath especially repugnant, and (aside from PCs) the rare few elven liches are typically baelnorns.
-I've asked Ed Greenwood, and he's mentioned that at the point that an Elf becomes a "PC", they're more than likely gotten over the societal disgust for Undead and Necromancy that most Elves have. Chalk it up to worldly experience and burn out from seeing stuff, I assume. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerűn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerűn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 07:35:00
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| Elves are very I find pragmatic when it comes to magical matters though they are of course good they still will do much to defend themselves and their homeland. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2012 : 23:22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And that propagation requires bloodflow. Which doesn't happen in liches.
Negative. As I mentioned before, exogenous disease may set in within the meat of dead bodies/carcasses. It requires no blood flow. The microbes that feed off the flesh carry disease germs along for the ride.
Blood flow would certainly speed the process along.
But a lack therof would not prevent it from proceeding, just the same. The microbes propel themselves along throug the flesh, devouring, multiplying, and spreading until there's no flesh left.
If they carried the lycanthropy germs into the bones, then you'd be left with a lycan skeleton.
Perhaps a lycan lich would transform into an animal skeleton, and then back into a human skeleton? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 02:17:28
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quote:
Lord Karsus
-I've asked Ed Greenwood, and he's mentioned that at the point that an Elf becomes a "PC", they're more than likely gotten over the societal disgust for Undead and Necromancy that most Elves have. Chalk it up to worldly experience and burn out from seeing stuff, I assume.
Polymorph into PC has other deleterious effects as well. PC elves have not only overcome their natural repugnance towards dead and undead things, they've also abandoned all common sense and rational thinking to follow their passionate lust of adventure. They envision themselves immersed in glory and treasure, covered in noble radiance or mysterious intrigue, wielding mighty weapons and powers, standing in epic pose atop a mountain of slain monsters and adversaries. But they really end up covered in unspeakable filth while fending off packs of hungry vampire rats with a sputtering torch, crawling and sliding an uncertain route through slimy tunnels into the rancid clammy depths of the sewers. Those who bump into a lich usually gain a great deal of "worldly experience" rather rapidly. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2012 : 13:52:43
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| What about a Voidlich, what are they and what is their purpose? I have heard of them but so far there is not much known about these liches. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 02:58:18
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Voidliches? What are they, Sharrans? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:18:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
What about a Voidlich, what are they and what is their purpose? I have heard of them but so far there is not much known about these liches.
The only thing I've heard about them is that they are beings from the Far Plane attracted by the magic of the ritual whereupon they supplant the aspiring mage and become a Lich themselves....one of the many hazards of becoming a Lich I think.
Haven't heard anything else beyond scant rumours like that (which fits their status I guess). |
Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms |
Edited by - Eli the Tanner on 26 Apr 2012 04:19:35 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:36:37
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| I think the greatest hazard is that many wizards do not survive the liching process. I mean worse than just inconveniently dying: their souls are instantly and irrevocably destroyed. Many more probably survive the soul transformation with damaged minds and bodies, these twisted or insane liches would likely not survive more than a few centuries at most. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 04:42:00
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Of course, all greater forms of magic involve greater risks. That's why most wizards who attempt lichdom belong to one of these categories: the genius; the mad; the powerful; the desperate. And often, a combination of two or three. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2475 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 05:46:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner
Can a Lycanthropic creature become a Lich? or does death result in a true return to their orginal form (therefore curse ending where Lich begins)?
I can't see anything that would directly suggest not but I'm curious about the Lycanthopy 'curse' and whether it would persist beyond death? I understand Liches are not subject to diseases...but I thought that lycanthropy was more akin to a magical curse than disease. Correct me if I'm wrong.
May depend on what is meant under Lycanthropy.
If the lich was e.g. an infected human while alive, it's indeed a curse (i.e. lifeforce mod) and magical disease - removable at that, even if not easily - so upon death of the body and thorough transformation of the lifeforce it's likely to simply fall off.
If we're talking about a natural lycantrope, it's another matter entirely. Our lichnee got more than one "true form" when alive, no reason why suddenly all but one would be lost - why are they supposed to turn into something other than "dead lycantrope" upon death?
Then say such folk may possess bodies of any of their forms without problems, but perhaps won't get transformation at will unless remnants did belong to a dead shapeshifter with similar forms. I.e. a werewolf lich using a wolfwere corpse could assume any of their common forms, but with a weretiger would be limited to the only common form (human) - that is, without additional magic or ability to possess anything at all that breathed once.
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
If so--if a lich's physical form is subject to microorganisms biodegrading that form
Liches are stuffed with unlife force enough to paralyze with a touch just as a side effect. I doubt molds, worms and other stuff not deserving individual HD would find this environment to their taste... normal variety, anyway. quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
The lorebooks clearly tell us that lich bodies still rot. Yes, with magical enhancements, their rotting bodies can still remain viable shells for centuries, or maybe even millenia. But they still decay, decompose, rot, etc.
Ah, but there can be differences between usual "organic" rot and withering of matter to dust because of strong Negative influence. Magical differences, too - a spell that could preserve an usual inert corpse for millenia may need regular recasting on a lich, but for effects accelerating normal rot it may be "too dead". |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 10:56:30
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| Since on the subject of a were-lich, I would like to pose a quandry(problem would suit it more) There is a 2e spell called Life Force Exchange in the school of Necromancy(Complete Book of Necromancers) and what it does is tranfers your life force,magic,soul etc into another body with that person's own life force transfering into your own body. Now if a lich casts that spell on a dragon would that automatically make him a dracolich or just a dragon, and then could he become a dracolich and yet be able to possess human corpses since he is in part human? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2012 : 15:50:40
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Remember that DMGR7 was written explicitly for DMs and strongly cautions against applying any of the new necromancer material to PCs. DMGR6: Complete Book of Villains and Van Richten's Guide to the Lich are specifically referenced in the section presenting the spell. Life force exchange (and its reverse) represents the pinnacle of necromantic spellcraft, a 9th level spell exclusively available to specialist necromancers. It's obviously a "black" or "gray" necromancy, casting it would probably be categorically evil since I doubt any living creature would willingly submit to any such transfer.
I think allowing this spell as written would be grossly unbalancing and unfair, whether used against the PCs or by them, so I would probably make it a 10th level "Epic" spell or turn it into some sort of complex ritual which requires exotic material components, astrological alignment, or some other factor limiting how often the spell could be cast in practice. The effect seems not unlike the bloodstone ritual Fistandantilus intended to cast upon Raistlin, so I would assume the casting details have a similar scope. Treating it as just another 9th level spell you can cast out of your powergaming arsenal after rolling initiative really cheapens the supernatural horror potential of both the spell and the spellcaster.
Note "Area of Effect: Two living creatures" - liches, dracoliches, vampires, shades, etc are technically disqualified. Although I suppose it's perfectly possible for them to research modified or improved variants of this spell. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 26 Apr 2012 15:51:08 |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2012 : 06:57:24
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| Then if there was an epic version with the modified requirement like living and or undead would he be able to become a dracolich and still possess human corpses or he would not be able to do so? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2012 : 07:13:42
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Epic content (at least in 2E) is entirely defined "at the DM's discretion".
So the answer to your question depends on the DM. I personally feel undead lycanthropes are blatantly ridiculous and so would completely disallow the possibility - other DMs might allow or even encourage such stuff within their games. Authors of FR fiction could go either way, but so far none ever have. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2012 : 13:38:03
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| Authors respect the rules of the novel I suppose. They realise that certain sources available to them are not only game breaking but in terms of the books novel breaking too. Thats why you see villains like Greeth being nerfed. IMO if they were to do it in game terms then as an example Robillard would have been dead, Elimnster would have been vapourized and other good guys would have been snuffed out. But the same goes for the baddies, they too would suffer major losses and if all the liches, wizards etc duke it out then yes the Realms would be a very different place right now. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2012 : 10:28:04
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| Quick question: If a lich is immune to electricity and cold then what happens if a lich with flesh gets hit by a lightning bolt, and for that matter if he gets struck by something akin to liquid nitrogen... |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Need to Know: The Lich
