| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 21 May 2012 : 21:31:24
|
| Feyds *groan* ... at least you didn't say Menchanted. |
[/Ayrik] |
 |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 03:05:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I would almost argue that Ravenloft is yet another overlapping sort of plane/dimension/world/place. Strahd seems to have (inadvertently) swapped his soulstuff through this plane, resulting in his special vampirism.
I've speculated in the past -- based on vague tidbits presented in the 3e RAVENLOFT Campaign Setting -- that the Demiplane of Dread might have been either a Coterminous [with the Mists of Ravenloft forming the linking points between the Dread Domains and a particular Material Plane setting] or a Coexistent plane [suggesting that when the Mists of Ravenloft remove a chunk of land from another world or plane, it's actually due to the fact that the Dread Domains exists a "planar echo" of the Material Plane it coexists with on the same "planar orbit," for lack of a better term] within the core D&D cosmology.
I'm basing this theory, mostly, on the terms and planar cosmological principles established in the 3e Manual of the Planes. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 03:23:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Maybe because he did not much care? I firmly believe that liches retain everything that they were before they achieved lichdom. They simply choose to ingnore certain emotions or with the gradual passing of time, see things in a different way. They don't need to get angry, they can just cool off because in another century or so the human that is such a pain in the undead neck will be dust in the ground...
Speaking of, I remember my comments on how Szass Tam is portrayed in the new Neverwinter series by RAS. An almost always angry lich who lashes out to anyone that irks him the slightest. Not the Szass Tam we've know in the Haunted Lands trilogy... 'Tis one of the outright signs the Realms should have a "continuity overseer" or "cop." |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 03:32:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Tam WANTS to remember...wants to feel and LIVE in fact I think. He doesn't like the idea of a mortal body though because that failed him before. He wants a truly immortal body...and to have that (without having someone else as his master in the outer planes!) he wants to be a god.
Sounds good to me!
Interesting. I, on the other hand, think his mad ambition to destroy and renew the world is the result of the several "maladies" with which he's seen the world is plagued, and that includes his own condition: undead. He desires perfection, and in a perfect world, unlife has no place.
Or maybe, just maybe, Fastrin's book is soaked in some sort of persuasive magic that makes whoever read it believe in its contents, to a certain, significant point... |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 03:43:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Are Shades still considered a form of undead?
No. They can still sire and bear children.
Think of shadowstuff, the matter that suffused their very being, as some sort of a dark (or shadowy) version of the elixir of life. It extends their lifespan and at the same time retains most of what constitute their humanity.
On a related note, Telamont Tanthul said that there would come a time when his state as a being made of pure shadowstuff would fail, and considered to embrace lichdom by then... |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 06:09:18
|
I think a human can bind the essence of the Feywild but they need help in doing it maybe like Araevin with the eladrin princess.
Shades are still alive but they have long life, supernatural healing in shadows etc. I think becoming a lich for a shade is a viable option though the phylactery will probably be bleeding shadows or something like that. After all a part of their soul is actually shadowstuff.
As for Tam being violent, maybe its the writer and not the whole continuity thing. RLB displays the nature of undead very nicely and make them seem not all horrendous and evil but with personality and being witty. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 07:00:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
As for Tam being violent, maybe its the writer and not the whole continuity thing.
They're one and the same. The 'cop' would tell the author to portray a character in a way that does not contradict or deviate from its previous appearances, regardless of the author's preference. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 12:04:39
|
quote:
Dennisquote:
Markustay
Are Shades still considered a form of undead?
No. They can still sire and bear children.
Canon reference or example supporting this claim?
Certainly Telamont Tanthul the shade sired twelve shady sons. A nearly lyrical tongue-twister, when stated that way.
Is there canonical certainty that Telamont was a shade when he sired these sons, or that his wife Alashar was a shade when conceiving and giving birth to the same? We know only that they lived in the Shadowfell (Demiplane of Shadow) at the time, and that each of the twelve sons was "transformed" into a shade, suggesting all twelve brothers were humans borne of humans*.
* More precisely, we know that Rivalen (the eldest son) and Brennus (the youngest son) were "transformed" into shades. I'm kind of assuming the ten brothers sired between them were no different.
Telamont (then called Shadow) was already over 250 years old when he and his wife fled ancient Netheril, but such superhuman longevity was not at all unusual (actually, rather typical) among arcanists of the time. Yet, I think it would've been observed and noted if Shadow was a proper shade - indeed this would have been entirely unique at the time, he would have been the prototype of all shades - an accomplishment as remarkable as Dethed inventing and becoming the first lich. Admittedly, Ioulaum's longevity, mythallars, and quasimagical items were beginning to fail during the latter part of Shadow's life in Netheril, which may have helped impel him towards researching how to defy death as a shade, but if he had begun his research in Netheril he managed to keep it entirely secret - even from his close friend, supporter, protector, and patron, Karsus.
On this note, I wonder if Telamont is somehow a "purer" shade than the rest of the Shadovar, in discovering the process did he perhaps delve too deeply into the infinite shadows, was his humanity forever lost in the swirling impenetrable darkness, sacrificed beyond the point of no return so that the rest of his people knew how far they could "safely" proceed in becoming shadovar? Such a thing would seem far more profound than simply assigning him a "thicker" template with a few extra abilities. Moreover, it suggests the possibility that a lich, too, might push beyond the "normal" boundaries of death and undeath ... and that whatever returns from the other side might be changed so much as to be nearly unrecognizable. What could possibly lie beyond death which terrifies even the undying?
(Interestingly, "Shadow's research had provided him with the knowledge he needed to transfer himself into the Demiplane of Shadow, leaving his physical form behind on the Prime Material Plane", his Netherese assassins found only his lifeless husk and a dead simulacrum of his wife. Does Telamont have an actual "body" or any real substance at all? Did he form a new body on the Demiplane of Shadow (much as an astral traveller does), and would it be made of flesh or of shadowstuff? Is he a "living" planar portal anchored to the Shadowfell? Were his sons sired by something entirely inhuman and insubstantial?) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 22 May 2012 14:26:18 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 21:28:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Dennisquote:
Markustay
Are Shades still considered a form of undead?
No. They can still sire and bear children.
Canon reference or example supporting this claim?
Erevis Cale. He was a shade when he made love to Vara, who, apparently, now bears his son...
Telamont Tanthul, too. Or rather, possibly. It wasn't really stated whether or not he's already a shade when he sired twelve sons. But it's an interesting possibility, and not quite far from the truth. He could well be the prototype of shades.
As to his current condition, well, as I pointed out, it was revealed that he's now made purely of shadowstuff, meaning nothing in him is human anymore---physically, that is. I vaguely recall Brennus commenting something like "You're no longer human, father." |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 22:26:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Speaking of, I remember my comments on how Szass Tam is portrayed in the new Neverwinter series by RAS. An almost always angry lich who lashes out to anyone that irks him the slightest. Not the Szass Tam we've know in the Haunted Lands trilogy...
Obviously, this wouldn't be the first time RAS may have taken a little detour . . . 
I haven't read the other stories with Tam, so I don't know enough about his personality to compare and contrast his characterization there versus here.
But let's review how has RAS portrayed him, thus far:
In Gauntlgrym, Tam was fairly lighthearted about the rivalry between Dahlia and Sylora. He actively encouraged Dahlia to compete with Sylora, and reveled in making Sylora squirm at the notion of Dahlia gaining in prestige. He was a dude, enjoying himself as a spectator of an ongoing cat fight. (Too bad we never got a mud pit, or a giant vat of Jello!) 
His exact rationale for having a Dread Ring erected near Neverwinter and Luskan hasn't been made explicitly clear (we've only been given a bunch of brief, vague passages), but he entrusted his followers to make it happen. He didn't try to micromanage the mission.
Szass Tam has appeared to Lady Sylora Salm in the Neverwinter Wood on several occasions, in the form of an ash cloud within the Dread Ring. I do not know if this is supposed to be his actual physical presence, or merely a magical projection of his image, akin to a hologram. But it would not appear that Tam has ever chosen to actually go to Neverwinter for this particular Dread Ring--instead, he has decided only to interact remotely with his contingent, there.
When the fire primordial was retrapped inside the volcano and the developing Dread Ring was halted in its tracks, Tam was understandably angry: his lieutenants had completely mucked up the mission with which they had been entrusted. A decade's worth of time had been invested in this particular Ring, and it was all nearly for nought. The promising Lady Dahlia had gone rogue, and her superior Lady Sylora had been too busy fussing over her rivalry with Dahlia to actually carry the mission through to success. It was all a big slap in his face that these women had become more preoccupied with their own agendas than with their lord's.
When Tam makes his first appearance in Neverwinter, Sylora knows she has to face him from a position of weakness. There is a sense of disappointment and ominous threat in his demeanor. She has failed him, and it is time to answer for it.
This is when her latest advisor and consort, Jestry, the human Ashmadai zealot, repeatedly interrupts to defend her honor. He's horny, and he's been conditioned to eagerly indulge in his emotions no matter what. Stopping to think first is not part of his vocabulary or routine.
Now, I don't know about Tam, but I for one was instantaneously ticked off with this Jestry fellow! He was a silly lackey, sticking his nose in where it definitely did not belong. I would've loved to have read about Tam summarily vaporizing him in an instant and sparing us from the whole Jestry sub-plot for the rest of the novel. (He got an interesting mission later in the novel, but his character and personality never did redeem itself to me.)
Tam threatened to take Jestry out a few times during that encounter at the beginning of Neverwinter, but he never followed through. Sylora begged for Jestry's life. That was a letdown for me.
Tam stressed to Sylora that what ultimately mattered here was her mission for her master--not her desire for a rival, or for a lackey, or anything else. She had allowed herself to become distracted from her supposed purpose in the 'Wood, and he was trying to remind her, in no unclear terms. Being short/terse with her and Jestry, and making threats seemed completely appropriate to me, given the context.
But as a more well-informed fan of the character from RLB's stories, how do you think he would've been better portrayed, in this situation? How might've he responded differently, and more consistently with RLB's depiction?
Jestry was not the only one to rush to Sylora's defense. Valindra Shadowmantle took some of the blame, herself, for the failure of the first mission to completely bring the Dread Ring to its fruition. She indicated that she had been so preoccupied with the idea of transplanting her lover Greeth's consciousness into the body of the pit fiend in Gauntlgrym, that she failed to give the fighting her full attention. She fell on her sword, blunting some of Tam's sharpness.
Tam does not threaten to destroy Valindra. Instead, he reacts with awestruck incredulity. Had she, indeed, just said that she basically wanted a pit fiend lover? The archlich was adeptly picking up on the irony of the moment, and letting it sink in for effect, rather than blowing up at the eldritch.
He ends up exasperatedly telling Sylora to just get it done.
Sylora realized that she had erred in failing to give the Neverwinter Dread Ring enough of her focus and attention. She had seen it as just a stepping stone to some other missions--some more feathers to put in her cap.
So she resolved to re-commit to this mission, and to please her master.
And when it was done, she planned to hand over supervision of the Ring to the rapidly-recovering eldritch Valindra.
But Sylora did not get the happy ending she was hoping for.
(spoiler)You could say she suffered a crushing, back-breaking defeat!  (/spoiler)
It remains to be seen how Tam will respond.
Again, how do you think he ought to?
Something that struck me as odd in Neverwinter is that Tam wanted so much for the Dread Ring to be renewed that he told Sylora to use its power to aid her in killing Dahlia and her allies, and striking down any other opposition. In so doing, it seems that he was putting his own Dread Ring at risk. And so, Sylora balked at the idea, worried that she might take the blame if anything else went wrong.
When she does reluctantly use some of the Dread Ring's power to erect a new fortress, Tam arrives and questions her decision. It had been his idea, but then he turned around and questioned her about doing so!
And when she explains her actions, he then praises her decision!
Sylora contemplates this erratic behavior, and concludes that it must all be some sort of sick game for him. He was simply trying to keep her off-balance, by keeping her unsure of where she stood with him, and eliminating the overly comfortable position she had held in the previous book. And it was working: She was beginning to dread her meetings with her boss.
In the end, after a protracted battle with our heroes, Sylora gets the distinct impression that her skimming of power from the Ring has indeed done irreparable harm to it, and she's going to catch Hells for it from Tam.
But we don't really know how Tam will respond, yet.
What thinks you about that? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 22 May 2012 22:46:34 |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 22:26:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
'Tis one of the outright signs the Realms should have a "continuity overseer" or "cop."
As far as having a continuity cop, I love the idea.
The way Bob has described it to me, he doesn't have the time to read every other writer's stories. Instead, he gets summaries and synopses from his editors of relevant aspects that have a bearing on his own upcoming stories, and he tries his best to respectfully adapt their material to his tales.
It would seem that the problem is apparently threefold:
1) Bob might not be reading enough of the other authors' books directly, himself, as he should be, given that it's a shared world and there are a lot of people intimately involved in all of this; and
2) The hand-off is apparently not as complete and comprehensive as it should be, because stuff is obviously getting lost in translation.
I liken it to the meetings and messages that are supposed to take place with cover artists before pending books go the printer. Ideally, the artists read the books and collect all the details before painting their pictures. But we know that doesn't, and it most cases cannot, happen. Cover artists don't have the time to read every book before they paint cover art on commission, either. Publishers don't even allow adequate time margins to get finished works to cover artists before the art is due. And the per-piece profit is usually low enough that artists have to have several pots in the fire going at once, so to speak, so that cuts down on their available time for reading books in depth even more. This makes the communications that take place between publisher and artist critical, but unfortunately, the instructions appear to be fleeing and incomplete most of the time.
And then, lastly, 3) the editors are not watching Bob's books closely enough and/or correcting them critically enough once he turns them in. They're letting stuff go because he's R.A. Salvatore. 
Which of the above, if corrected, do you think would make the greatest improvement in the product? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 22 May 2012 22:31:56 |
|
|
|
Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 23:03:55
|
| As a writer, I feel that it's the responsibility of the author to do as much research as possible to prepare his subject as well as possible. This is coming from somone that typically writes for peer-reviewed subjects where this no profit involved, and where there is no direct assistence from anyone on the research matter. I kind of feel that Robert should do a bit more in that regard when taking on characters that are not his own creation as to keep true to what previous authors have had for the characters personality. Do I feel that editors should in some degree should play a role in making sure that the product feels like it fits within the overal line with previous products, yes. However, I am less inclined to feel that the burden fits squarely upon their sholders. This is of course entirely my opinion; take it as you will. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 23:04:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Dennis
No. They can still sire and bear children.
Canon reference or example supporting this claim?
I realize that Bob is not going to be taken as the most credible source, given the present discussion between me and Dennis.
But in Gauntlgrym, shadified Shadovar barbarians rampage the Sword Coast North, raping and pillaging, and impregnating many of the women. When the women give birth, the Shadovar plan to return and collect the young, bringing them into the fold as future warriors.
It is unclear how many of the Shadovar were born as shades, and how many had the shade template applied to them later in life.
The warlord Herzgo Alegni was born as a normal tiefling, but he was subsequently turned into a shade and promoted to a leadership position by Netherese authorities. He fathers a child through rape with the elf Dahlia Syn'dalay, and her resulting vendetta against him leads to all sorts of nastiness. Alegni's troops were enroute back to Dahlia's ruined village to pick up the newborn babies, when she decided that she had other plans . . .
This half-elf, half-shadified-tiefling offspring resurfaces in Neverwinter by the name of Effron. He is deformed, though whether that was because of harm inflicted upon him by his mother, or other Shadovar, or as a result of the manner in which he was conceived, is not clear. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 23:11:53
|
I had totally forgotten about Erevis Cale's pregnant wifey. I'm assuming he is the father, of course, but then again you never know what scummy old Mask's been up to. Varra's child was certainly conceived prior to Erevis absorbing a portion of Mask's/Shar's stolen divinity ... but even then, Erevis was no ordinary shade, he was (at least in Mask's opinion) a Chosen of Mask who might be able to circumvent normal restrictions. The Chosen of the Gods have never really obeyed D&D game rules before. More data might be available once Varra's child is actually born, will it be human or shade or special?
I would have to reluctantly accept the possibility of shades (at least male shades) apparently being able to sire offspring. Did the Shadovar return to Faerûn to prevent overpopulation problems (shade fertility+longevity), or to prevent underpopulation problems (shade sterility)? |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
149 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 01:01:32
|
There is nothing wrong with Outsiders procreating, the numerous Tieflings, planetouched, half-fiends and more that populate the realms are testament to that. However it is fairly well documented that Shades themselves are created during a ritual for those who please Telamont.
I would surmise that the offspring of the Shades, at best, are simply more Shadovar (the long-lived dusky skinned huamans), which are closer to tieflings than true shades.
|
Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms |
Edited by - Eli the Tanner on 23 May 2012 01:09:06 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 01:28:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Speaking of, I remember my comments on how Szass Tam is portrayed in the new Neverwinter series by RAS. An almost always angry lich who lashes out to anyone that irks him the slightest. Not the Szass Tam we've know in the Haunted Lands trilogy...
Now, I don't know about Tam, but I for one was instantaneously ticked off with this Jestry fellow! He was a silly lackey, sticking his nose in where it definitely did not belong. I would've loved to have read about Tam summarily vaporizing him in an instant and sparing us from the whole Jestry sub-plot for the rest of the novel. [snip]
In the end, after a protracted battle with our heroes, Sylora gets the distinct impression that her skimming of power from the Ring has indeed done irreparable harm to it, and she's going to catch Hells for it from Tam.
But we don't really know how Tam will respond, yet.
What thinks you about that?
The Szass Tam I've known from non-RAS novels has always been able to rein in his emotions, wrath included. He was once betrayed by his own apprentice (in Red Ambition), and later, by someone he considered close to a friend (Malark Springhill, in The Haunted Lands trilogy). In both times, he just laughed it off.
---
After he'd sown enough chaos in Thay, he nominated himself to be its temporary regent. But all the zulkirs united and denied him the post, even those from his own faction, who, obviously, he expected would vote for him. For a moment, he felt the urge to strike at them, to teach them a lesson, to be rid of them once and for all. But he knew better...He knew each did not stand a chance against them. But together, they could pose a serious threat.
---
Out of nowhere, Szass Tam appeared amidst The Brotherhood of the Griffon, asking them to join his army. Aoth was well aware that should Szass Tam feel the need, he could easily incinerate the whole brotherhood with a wave of hand---their number and what little magic they had were of no use against the lich. But boldly, he and his companions declined the "offer." Better dead than be pawns of a mad archmage. Not without reason, Aoth & Co. expected their lives to be forfeit. To their great surprise, Szass Tam, whose army they had been fighting for years, calmly vanished...
---
When the zulkirs managed to destroy the "concept" of one of the Dread Rings, thereby disrupting the grand design of all the DRs, many expected him to lash out in anger, especially those in charge of the destroyed Ring. However, he just felt surprised, and silently congratulated his peers for a job well done. Of course, he managed to salvage the design---by doing something no known archmage has ever attempted.
These are big and serious things that would have made one wild and rampage like a Hulk. Yet in all these times, Szass Tam remained 'in control.' And then suddenly, now we see him get irritated by one insignificant servant and lash out at him with biting words and crippling magic? Ha! What a change indeed! |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 01:40:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Did the Shadovar return to Faerûn to prevent overpopulation problems (shade fertility+longevity), or to prevent underpopulation problems (shade sterility)?
I don't think Telamont ever thought their low population has ever been a problem. They've achieved much in spite (or rather partly because) of their small number. The lesser number of people to manage, the faster it is to get them mobilize... Besides, they use non-Netherese pawns far too often to carry out their schemes.
Rivalen once told Alusair when accused of melting the High Ice something along this line, "We're just one city, Princess. What can we do?" And Alusair replied, "A city from a fallen magical empire that changed the world forever. Yes, indeed, I shouldn't worry what your city can do." |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 04:08:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
These are big and serious things that would have made one wild and rampage like a Hulk. Yet in all these times, Szass Tam remained 'in control.' And then suddenly, now we see him get irritated by one insignificant servant and lash out at him with biting words and crippling magic? Ha! What a change indeed!
I openly, unabashedly admit that I am reaching here. 
But what if we are only seeing what he wants us to see? What if he is only giving the appearance of being an easily-angered dictator?
As I mentioned above, Tam was fairly easy-going with Sylora in Gauntlgrym. He only changed when she ineptly screwed up her mission with the Dread Ring and the primordial, and lost Dahlia to boot, all over petty bickering.
He could've, perhaps, merely been trying a different tack in Neverwinter in order to attempt to get a different result. 'Twould be the rational thing, no?
Again, notice that Tam goes from grouchily complaining that Sylora draws power from the Neverwinter Ring to praising her and encouraging her to continue along her present course of action, all during the same conversation. Sylora secretly questions the sincerity of his apparent anger, postulating that he might be feigning anger and then rapidly changing and playing nice just to keep her bewildered. She dare not call his bluff, though. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 04:50:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
These are big and serious things that would have made one wild and rampage like a Hulk. Yet in all these times, Szass Tam remained 'in control.' And then suddenly, now we see him get irritated by one insignificant servant and lash out at him with biting words and crippling magic? Ha! What a change indeed!
I openly, unabashedly admit that I am reaching here.
But what if we are only seeing what he wants us to see? What if he is only giving the appearance of being an easily-angered dictator?
To what end? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 05:42:26
|
| I just found out about the fifth book in the BOTG series the sequel to The Masked Witches. It is called Porphet of the Dead. Will we possibly see the return of our RLB written Tam then? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
|
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 07:20:28
|
DragonReader mentioned it some days ago, and provided a link on Amazon.com. Richard said part of the novel will be set in Thay. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 13:36:19
|
YaY!
If the whole dread ring thing does not work for Tammy, does anyone think he will become a demilich? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
|
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 14:02:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
These are big and serious things that would have made one wild and rampage like a Hulk. Yet in all these times, Szass Tam remained 'in control.' And then suddenly, now we see him get irritated by one insignificant servant and lash out at him with biting words and crippling magic? Ha! What a change indeed!
I openly, unabashedly admit that I am reaching here.
But what if we are only seeing what he wants us to see? What if he is only giving the appearance of being an easily-angered dictator?
To what end?
Projected personality is an illusion. If your enemies think that you are a hot-head and think they can use that to their advantage by making you angry and less astute...then when they try it, your feigned anger only covers the cold calculating mind that you actually have that is one step ahead of your foe. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 17:31:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
YaY!
If the whole dread ring thing does not work for Tammy, does anyone think he will become a demilich?
If it doesn't work, he would have serious problems with Bane. Remember their agreement? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 17:37:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
These are big and serious things that would have made one wild and rampage like a Hulk. Yet in all these times, Szass Tam remained 'in control.' And then suddenly, now we see him get irritated by one insignificant servant and lash out at him with biting words and crippling magic? Ha! What a change indeed!
I openly, unabashedly admit that I am reaching here.
But what if we are only seeing what he wants us to see? What if he is only giving the appearance of being an easily-angered dictator?
To what end?
Projected personality is an illusion. If your enemies think that you are a hot-head and think they can use that to their advantage by making you angry and less astute...then when they try it, your feigned anger only covers the cold calculating mind that you actually have that is one step ahead of your foe.
He wasn't feigning anger to a foe. I don't see how that could work. He lashed out, as I and BEAST pointed out, to an insignificant (useless) lackey.
Even before he became Thay's sole sovereign, he'd always been one step ahead of his rivals. And he did NOT have to feign wrath in those many and long times. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 17:49:47
|
| Then I would write it off as an inconsistent character portrayal for sure. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 18:11:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Then I would write it off as an inconsistent character portrayal for sure.
I wouldn't put all the blame on RAS. Perhaps he did his research and reading to a point he considered 'well enough,' which obviously, isn't. Considering the deadline and the many things he had to write, I understand that he could not read all that had to be known about the characters he was to use for the series. And this is where the editor or the 'cop' should come into play---point out where he's deviating and steer him to the right course... |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 18:58:29
|
*meh*
I guess if Vampires can have children (and in some settings they do), then I guess shades can to.
I personally HATE that - it ain't ever gonna happen in one of my worlds - but it is what it is. If I did allow it (for story purposes), then the offspring would be some sort of half-alive abomination.
Something like Wesly Snipes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 23 May 2012 18:59:04 |
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 19:04:11
|
Well, in the game in which my wizard (Dalor Darden) became a Shade, he also created a new body for himself.
Essentially he crafted an Adamantine-Alloy body that then housed his "essence"...but for it to properly work (according to my DM) the entire body had to also be infused with Shadow Stuff...and thus he became a Shade.
Nothing like being in the middle of a fight with someone who thinks "Ah, Shade! Throw some light on him." then his sword bounces off a hide like he has only seen on Iron Golems!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 19:09:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
To what end?
As I said, he could've been trying to shake Sylora out of her smug, self-centered comfort zone. He had allowed he far too much freedom in Gauntlgrym. He delegated and entrusted. And it backfired on him, because Sylora turned out to be a dud.
So he probably decided that he was going to have to take a different tack with her this time around. Giving her the benefit of the doubt failed. He was going to have to put pressure on her. He was going to have to assert himself over all their interpersonal concerns.
And it seemed to work, too. Sylora became more focused on her assigned mission this time, in Neverwinter. Even as she doubted the sincerity of Tam's apparent anger, she still realized the error of her ways and redoubled her efforts.
Our heroes just got in her way. But at least it wasn't her petty ego this time. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Need to Know: The Lich
