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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6446 Posts |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 17:17:35
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| I wasn't even aware he was working on one....man, if he is working on an FR sourcebook of some kind, that's almost guaranteed to get my money! |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 17:37:15
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| Was that his High Forest project? I have been patiently waiting for this one |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 21:44:50
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There were at least two, one of which was complete (and a bit of that was used somewhere), and the other mostly complete.
However, when you got guys like Krash and Eric writing more history, and me digging up all sorts of geographic stuff (and even sneaking things in when I could), and Ed giving constant input and adding his own 'juicy bits', and even Steven Schend lending a hand on at least one lore point that came up (although I can't recall exactly what that was... oh wait... it had to do with The High Moor... ), lets just say that what started out as one extended project (branching Eric's home campaign around Daggerford outward to the High Forest) kept growing and growing and GROWING and eventually morphed into at least four books, with a 'projected map' I did, showing possible future regions we could explore (so if this stuff sees the light of day, and turns out to be a popular as I think it will be, we could be seeing NINE books or more... eventually...)
But it all depends on US. Right now the Realms needs a lot of hand-holding. Think of it as a loved-one that's been through a terrible accident, and needs time to recover. We can't be on sites like this and elsewhere and bitch & moan about 'how crappy everything is now' because that will just drive those new fans away. And you know what will happen then? We won't see any of this material EVER get published because there will be no market for it, and it will be ALL OUR FAULT.
So instead of crying about "how things used to be", how about some of you get a game going with some newbs - show them how freakin' awesome the Realms are! You know why a lot of the (younger) Pathfinder players don't like the Realms? its because they don't know the Realms! I saw that at Gencon - I talked to lots of folks and they were like, "FR? Yeah... I heard of that".
HEARD OF IT? 
Make them bask in its glory! Show them the way. The Forgotten Realms needs people to talk it up right now, not talk it down. Do you remember that feeling you had when you first read through the OGB? Make them feel that! If we can do that, then we will ALL get precisely what we want. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Apr 2015 21:50:15 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 00:15:32
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| Need a FR themed website reaching 100k people a month and <something> on it that turns people into raving Realms fans. The question is, what is the <something>!? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 01:04:52
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I'm not sure Eric's work fits into the current WotC product model.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6446 Posts |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2015 : 03:10:35
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| Can I just say that if we don't see this book then Wizards truly sucks. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2015 : 05:22:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Can I just say that if we don't see this book then Wizards truly sucks.
You can, but I wish you wouldn't because there is nothing productive or helpful in saying so.
On the other hand, if you gave some objective reasons why WotC should consider publishing work like Eric's...well then we'd have a reason to read what you are writing instead of letting our eyes gloss over as our brains are injected with the daily dose of negativity. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6446 Posts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2015 : 12:54:05
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| The comment isn't mine, even though I must agree that it would be yet another let down from WotC, if this work were to be ignored. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 10 Apr 2015 12:54:29 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6446 Posts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2015 : 12:59:49
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| It happens, don't worry about it. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2015 : 18:54:19
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| Not in anyway am I undervaluing Mr. Boyd's fantastic work or his contributions to the Realms, but I was under the impression that it would be released here, as fanfic. On the other hand, clearly a LOT of work has gone into this project and time is valuable. I hope that if Wizzy isn't interested, if it doesn't fit their ''business plan'' that we will see it regardless. Was not his revisited ''Under Illifarn'' shared in this way? Hopefully the Man himself will comment and clear things up. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 10 Apr 2015 18:58:21 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6446 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2015 : 22:28:08
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think Irennan's point was constructive enough in its criticism. They have been presented with a top quality product to release that they did not have to pay to develop and that they are guaranteed to make a sale from from every realms fan of past editions for 2 reasons.
1 - everyone is so starved for lore they will pay $50 for an adventure that contains only 2 lines of basic lore in the whole product.
2 - No matter what edition they are from everyone recognises Eric Boyds work and its quality and all the signs on this forum is that almost everyone wants it as soon as possible.
It is up to WoTC to release that work now, they do not have to use the hardback book approach they have championed so far (much to their detriment i imagine), they could release it on pdf at negligable cost and make a lot of money from a work they did not have to pay to research and collate and that they do not have to pay much to turn into pdf and release. I have made several pdfs for no cost whatsoever and releasing them on drivethrurpg is something they are doing with old editions so the infrastructure is there.
To repress or delay that work for whatever reason is a poor decision (and shows just how much they value us as customers) and deserves the response it provokes. There is nothing positive to find in this decision. They have the product, we want to buy it, so release it.
Actually, do we know that he presented it to WotC? I've not seen it stated that WotC rejected it, or sat on it, or if they are even aware of it -- only speculation that it wouldn't fit their current model.
We really need to make sure we're not bashing WotC for the wrong reasons. Verifiable statements and actions are one thing -- but we've not had that, in this case. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 01:06:13
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| I had not even considered that Wizards might lay claim to this and then NOT release it. That would be truly terrible, but not outside the realm of possibility and beyond idiotic. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 02:35:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I had not even considered that Wizards might lay claim to this and then NOT release it. That would be truly terrible, but not outside the realm of possibility and beyond idiotic.
Here's my understanding of the situation (with the caveat that I don't claim to be an expert of intellectual property and copyright law):
If Under Illefarn Anew is sold as a print or digital product, it belongs to WotC/Hasbro. Otherwise, it would have to be scrubbed of any official Realms and D&D references, either as a fanfic product that could be bought or made available for free download.
When does the copyright lapse? 
It would be very nice if Wizards/Hasbro would buy it, pay Eric and others for their work, and make it available at least as a digital download. It would be the start of something wonderful for a 5th edition Realms. |
Edited by - Rymac on 11 Apr 2015 04:04:01 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 04:14:19
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Thanks for posting a worthwhile response, dazzler. I don't agree with everything you say (see an example below), but I can respect what you have to see.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
1 - everyone is so starved for lore they will pay $50 for an adventure that contains only 2 lines of basic lore in the whole product.
It's never a good idea to spread someone else's lies as though they are truth.
The lore may not rise to the level of a Volo's Guide, but after having leafed through the hardback adventures I can tell you there's more than just two lines of "basic" lore. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 11 Apr 2015 04:15:32 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 04:18:38
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In which timeline, I wonder, is this undoubtedly most excellent work take place? Anybody recall from Eric's scroll? Somehow I don't see another Arcane Age-type product ever hitting the shelf.
Wasn't UIA posted here? Or on Eric's page? I did not think that to be an ''official'' publication. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 04:31:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I had not even considered that Wizards might lay claim to this and then NOT release it. That would be truly terrible, but not outside the realm of possibility and beyond idiotic.
I honestly don't see why they would do that. We have folks here who are far too willing to bash WotC, but I'm pretty sure no one thinks WotC would buy something just to sit on it.
And that's what it would take.
Even though he is far more of a Realms fan than us, I'm pretty sure that neither Eric Boyd nor anyone else would take the time to do all that work, just to sign over the rights to it without any compensation. So even if he has presented it to WotC (and I've yet to see anything that indicates he has), it's his until they buy it. He could easily toss it out there for free on some website, much like Brian James originally did with his excellent Grand History -- it belongs to the creator until money changes hands.
And I doubt that even our most dedicated naysayers are going to be able to convince anyone that WotC deliberately bought a complete sourcebook just to not make any money off of it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 04:45:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
The lore may not rise to the level of a Volo's Guide, but after having leafed through the hardback adventures I can tell you there's more than just two lines of "basic" lore.
Hardback? I assumed UIA only existed as a digital product at this point. I wonder what the turnaround would be if it's that ready for publication? A year? Six months? Less time than that to hit the shelves? Assuming Wizards buys it of course.
I'm going to make a prayer of supplication to Deneir right now. |
Edited by - Rymac on 11 Apr 2015 04:47:46 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 05:39:00
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| Not talking about UIA, but the hardback adventures WotC has released for the use of the 5E rules set. I apologize for the confusion. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 05:47:47
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| Still, where and how was Anew released? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2015 : 05:54:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I had not even considered that Wizards might lay claim to this and then NOT release it. That would be truly terrible, but not outside the realm of possibility and beyond idiotic.
I honestly don't see why they would do that. We have folks here who are far too willing to bash WotC, but I'm pretty sure no one thinks WotC would buy something just to sit on it.
And that's what it would take.
Even though he is far more of a Realms fan than us, I'm pretty sure that neither Eric Boyd nor anyone else would take the time to do all that work, just to sign over the rights to it without any compensation. So even if he has presented it to WotC (and I've yet to see anything that indicates he has), it's his until they buy it. He could easily toss it out there for free on some website, much like Brian James originally did with his excellent Grand History -- it belongs to the creator until money changes hands.
And I doubt that even our most dedicated naysayers are going to be able to convince anyone that WotC deliberately bought a complete sourcebook just to not make any money off of it.
I'm pretty sure he did it for his own personal home game with friends and family, his children, I believe. I hope he will correct me if I'm wrong, but, from what I've read it was not originally intended to be a contracted project. I don't care how we get it, I just want it. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6446 Posts |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2015 : 07:34:33
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Honestly?
I'm tired of hearing things about supposedly mega-cool amazing Realms books, supplements, and such that never end up seeing the light of day.
WotC talks a good game, things will be amazing/awesome/brilliant, there are rumors that so-and-so has sent them a bunch of material, and then they end up sitting on it. Perhaps it doesn't fit with the current model, or publication scheme, and oh by the way they also canceled such-and-such novel that was teased for a while on an Amazon placeholder page, then 10% of that material gets pulled out and used for DDO/Neverwinter or not used at all, just dropped. And the amazing material remains in NDA limbo, or (supposedly) a tenth of it might make it into RPGA/Encounters.
WotC stirred people up with crazy preview snippets for 4E, and we all know how that turned out: gutted like a fish, then minimal-to-nothing because they realized they made a mistake. At GenCon they talked another great game for 5E/Next with the Sundering, problems would be fixed, we'd get back on the awesome train, and what we got was a novel series that had a couple good novels (but few details about the Sundering or afterwards) and then nothing. Well, technically we got a re-purposed Temple of Elemental Evil.
Now the inner circle boys club is doing the same thing. They pass stuff around in their closed, tight circle, dropping hints and teasers about "maybe it might perhaps be something they'll submit to WotC someday," and others who have seen the secret manuscript talk about how they're doing deep exhaustive research, and it's SO AMAZING that it's not just going to be one book, but two books, and maybe even nine whole sourcebooks about the MOST AMAZING detail, with great adventures that everyone will love, and so on. But the reality is, only the inner circle boys club is sharing it amongst themselves.
I'm tired of the massive hype and blown smoke, and the teasing that never ever turns into anything. And now we're getting it from both ends: both WotC and also this group or that group of former part-time designers.
There's a point where people just lose trust, you know?
Sure, some of it is just speculation, rumors and wishful thinking, made bigger because a significant number of us just want something new. But tossing around tidbits and teasers because you happen to be in some inner circle? Not cool. Stop leading people on if what you have seen isn't anywhere near the actual, final publication stage. I don't even want to hear about it even if it's "done" but 80% unlikely to be in print.
Or do like many other Scribe has done, and actually share it as a fan creation. Or don't, but stop teasing it.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6446 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2015 : 10:10:03
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There is zero wrong with being enthusiastic about the potential release of new material from veteran Realms designers.
We're fans and part of the fandom. Being excited about the Realmsis what we're supposed to do.
That's why I am sympathetic to much of what Eltheron said about being let down by WotC: they generated a lot of hype and then did not always deliver on it.
The part I am not sympathetiic to is the notion of an "inner circle boys club," which is pure fiction. Hewing closer to the truth about the history of collaboration between the likes of Eric Boyd and George Krashos and its net positive effect on published Realms work would have made for a stronger message. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2015 : 10:28:49
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| Twould be nice if Eric would come along and put all of this speculation to rest. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Eric Boyd's New Sourcebook
Topic Locked
