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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 23:50:43
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
(Question: is it worth reading the Archwizards series and does he have an interesting part in it?)
It depends on who you ask... Some folks love that trilogy, others loathe it. I've not seen too many people who fall in the middle on that one. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Mar 2010 23:52:15 |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 20:06:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
(Question: is it worth reading the Archwizards series and does he have an interesting part in it?)
It depends on who you ask... Some folks love that trilogy, others loathe it. I've not seen too many people who fall in the middle on that one.
the archwizards trilogy is more rotten than a pint of milk been left in the sun for a week. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2010 : 20:33:38
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
(Question: is it worth reading the Archwizards series and does he have an interesting part in it?)
It depends on who you ask... Some folks love that trilogy, others loathe it. I've not seen too many people who fall in the middle on that one.
the archwizards trilogy is more rotten than a pint of milk been left in the sun for a week.
I sense a subtle tendency towards "loathe" here... 
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2010 : 19:39:20
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I'm currently reading, and enjoying, the archwizards trilogy. Most of the characters are great (Malik rules), though there is a few things I don't like.
I don't care much for the main character, Galaeron (sp?), and his star-wars-like slow dark side shift. I also don't like how illithids and beholders are only canon fodder for the Phaerimms. Still, I think the shades are very interesting, not evil to the core and power hungry like the zhentarim or the red wizards. I just started The Sorcerer, and so far it is very good. |
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Steffen Farslayer
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 22:11:41
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| I finished The Godcatcher (which was fantastic) and have just started City of Torment. |
"It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die." - The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss |
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Drasek
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 02:34:08
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| I really dig Paul Kemp and his Erevis Cale books. Really excited for The Cycle of Night series to start with Godborn. I also enjoy all of RA Salvatore as well as Richard Baker. Currently reading Richard Lee Byars and the Haunted Lands trilogy. |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 00:56:47
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| I'm currently reading "Elminster's Daughter". It's ok. Now I see why people got the impression the Realms were about Ed's favorite NPCs just stomping anyone who annoyed them. I really wish he'd left out the Mystra stuff. It reads like really bad fan-fic. |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
Edited by - danbuter on 02 Apr 2010 00:57:32 |
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A Publishing Lackey
Seeker
74 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 19:44:31
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danbuter, years ago I agreed with what you've just said about Greenwood's writing.
Until I attended a Book Expo America in Chicago for the publisher I was then working for, and took the opportunity to wander over to the TSR booth and mention very much the same complaint about "Ed's favorite NPCs" and "the gods onstage" you just posted to Brian Thomsen, the then-head of TSR's fiction publishing arm.
Thomsen laughed and told me I was missing the essential point: that Greenwood created the whole setting, and that the characters in his books were almost ALL created by him, both the so-called favorites and the ones they beat up on.
Then he told me about the friendly arguments he had, all the time, with Greenwood - - who DIDN'T want to ever have gods onstage in Realms novels, or use Elminster and the Seven as major characters. Apparently Ed preferred to tell the stories of novice adventurers, new characters never used in any gaming adventure, having adventures and slowly getting more competent.
But Thomsen would only give him contracts for new Elminster books (something that's still going on, considering the title of Ed's next book, and the press release on the WotC website about Salvatore's new multi-book contract for Drizzt books). They wanted to see Mystra interacting with Elminster and other mortals, right onstage. (Remember, this is what Thomsen told me himself, not my guess.)
They only wanted Elminster books, because those were what sold. Second only to Drizzt books, and far ahead of all other Realms books. "Iconic characters sell" was Thomsen's phrase.
So I asked him why, if Ed didn't want to write about particular Chosen, he went on writing book after book for TSR under those conditions.
Thomsen grinned and told me that Greenwood went on writing "because if he doesn't, he knows I'll just get someone else to write Elminster books. He'll HATE that."
(We know that's true, too, because of Salvatore's dispute with TSR, and the aborted Mark Anthony novel Shores of Dusk.)
So there's your answer. Greenwood books are that way because TSR, and now presumably WotC, want them that way. Because a silent majority of readers who buy the books want to read that.
I hear this "favorite NPC" argument again and again, but never from Greenwood, and very seldom from anyone who knows how fiction publishing works. There's no trace of favoritism for particular characters in Greenwood's non-Realms books, only the usual fantasy tropes of establishing and following heroes throughout a narrative.
Just want to clear this up, because I read and hear it again and again. Some gamers seem to think Greenwood controls the published Realms, and writes just what he wants to write. He submits outlines, has to get them approved, and then undergoes rewrites and editing liked everybody else, which means there's no way a Mystra scene, or an improbable triumph by Elminster or anyone else, would ever be in a book unless the editor wanted it there.
Just my two coppers, tossed into the hat. Ed may have a lot more leeway in writing than any other Realms author aside from Salvatore, but he's telling the tales the publisher wants him to tell. If you read the catalog copy for Elminster Must Die! that should be obvious.
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 03:16:25
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| I know Ed has been "forced" to write about this stuff. Doesn't mean I like it. Much of the book is really good. There's just some over-the-top stuff in it that I could do without. |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 00:07:21
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| I finished rereading the second version of Spellfire today. It's truly a fine novel (even with its reduced prose and one too many dracolich). I savoured the many quiet scenes where characters caught their breath, and paid special attention to the villains' discussions that I sped through the first time. Wouldn't it be great if someone made the copious lore on evil power groups in Ed's books easier to reference and use? Stay tuned. |
Edited by - Faraer on 05 Apr 2010 00:47:15 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2010 : 01:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Wouldn't it be great if someone made the copious lore on evil power groups in Ed's books easier to reference and use? Stay tuned.
Aye, it would. Which is why I once gave it a whirl myself. But other projects eventually saw this relegated to the side-lines, unfortunately.
If you'd like any additional help with this, Faraer, I'd be glad to assist in whatever capacity you see fit. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2010 : 13:01:01
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FInished City of Ravens yesterday and now am starting Avenger (both by Rich Baker, who knows the realms too well)  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2010 : 14:40:36
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Last week my copies of The Fractured Sky and The Crystal Mountain arrived.
Therefore I am currently re-reading "The Gossamer Plain", as it has been some years since the first read and I want to have all the character names present.
@Alistair: how did you like City of Ravens?[ |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
Edited by - skychrome on 07 Apr 2010 14:43:22 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2010 : 15:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
Last week my copies of The Fractured Sky and The Crystal Mountain arrived.
Therefore I am currently re-reading "The Gossamer Plain", as it has been some years since the first read and I want to have all the character names present.
@Alistair: how did you like City of Ravens?[
Oh yeah you'll really like those books.
City of Ravens was fantabulastik. I felt a bit like I was reading a Live Action Clue game with lots of extra events going on on the side. Rich's novels are a pleasure to read. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2010 : 01:45:10
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| Finished "Elminster's Daughter". Overall it was a pretty good book. It does make Cormyr look much more neutral than good, which I've never viewed it as. At least, the new Royal Mage is not someone I would like personally. I think this book needed another 50 pages on Narnra, and a lot less Symbul/Florin/Storm/namedrop stuff. |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2010 : 01:57:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you'd like any additional help with this, Faraer, I'd be glad to assist in whatever capacity you see fit.
Thanks for the offer.
You may have you noticed there are two almost separate branches of Zhentarim lore, in the novels and then in the successive sourcebook write-ups (FRA, RZK, C&D, LoD), which leave out several senior (surviving!) Zhents introduced in the Shandril books.
Now on Hand of Fire . . . |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2010 : 02:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you'd like any additional help with this, Faraer, I'd be glad to assist in whatever capacity you see fit.
Thanks for the offer.
You may have you noticed there are two almost separate branches of Zhentarim lore, in the novels and then in the successive sourcebook write-ups (FRA, RZK, C&D, LoD), which leave out several senior (surviving!) Zhents introduced in the Shandril books.
Indeed. And, in fact, I think I've still got a pending query for Ed [from '04] that's based, partly, on a few initial discrepancies I picked up from comparisons of Zhentarim between the sourcebooks and novels.
I'll have to check the "So Saith Ed" archive, since I can't immediately recall whether he's already answered it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2010 : 03:58:22
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I just finished the Shandril Saga. Really good stuff.
Its funny I never really read Ed's work before.
I heard to many horror stories. Yet I read them with an open mind, and I like them.
I plan on reading the Shadows of the Avatar series next.
Currently reading the God Catcher. Started last night at work. Halfway thru it. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2010 : 17:07:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
I plan on reading the Shadows of the Avatar series next.
Coming from someone who didn't much enjoy Ed's style, especially in the Shandril Saga, I must say that the Shadows of the Avatar series were Ed novels that I re-read because I enjoyed them  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2010 : 19:00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
I plan on reading the Shadows of the Avatar series next.
Coming from someone who didn't much enjoy Ed's style, especially in the Shandril Saga, I must say that the Shadows of the Avatar series were Ed novels that I re-read because I enjoyed them
Strangely enough that's the only one of Ed's series I really didn't like that much. To much fighting and magic. Maybe I should give them another try when I get the time. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2010 : 19:05:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
I plan on reading the Shadows of the Avatar series next.
Coming from someone who didn't much enjoy Ed's style, especially in the Shandril Saga, I must say that the Shadows of the Avatar series were Ed novels that I re-read because I enjoyed them
Strangely enough that's the only one of Ed's series I really didn't like that much. To much fighting and magic. Maybe I should give them another try when I get the time.
 What do you mean too much magic??? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2010 : 19:06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
I plan on reading the Shadows of the Avatar series next.
Coming from someone who didn't much enjoy Ed's style, especially in the Shandril Saga, I must say that the Shadows of the Avatar series were Ed novels that I re-read because I enjoyed them
Strangely enough that's the only one of Ed's series I really didn't like that much. To much fighting and magic. Maybe I should give them another try when I get the time.
What do you mean too much magic???
I hate long battle descriptions and scenes. And spell battles are even worse. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 00:32:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I hate long battle descriptions and scenes. And spell battles are even worse.
I have to agree... I was especially bored with that drawn-out spellbattle in the Spider Queen books, even though some folks raved about it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 02:01:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I hate long battle descriptions and scenes. And spell battles are even worse.
I have to agree... I was especially bored with that drawn-out spellbattle in the Spider Queen books, even though some folks raved about it.
Heh. Like the 'Mech fighting scenes in my BattleTech books, I usually just skim through -- depending on the author of the book -- fight-scenes in FR novels. I prefer following the narrative and looking for any lore-gems and other tidbits. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 13 Apr 2010 02:14:40 |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 02:24:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I hate long battle descriptions and scenes. And spell battles are even worse.
Same goes for me. Fighting scenes bore me quite a lot and battle scenes are even worse.
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 13:36:56
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| Fighting scenes I can get confused on what exactly is going on also. Magic can make it harder depending on how its done. It must be hard to write a vivid combat scene especially when magic is involved. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 15:31:55
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| Totally agree. Must be a challenge to write fighting scenes. As long as they are kept short and without too many details (oposed to RAS's style) I do not bother. Magic is tricky too. I only remember the spellbattle between Gromph and the lich from WotSQ book 6 in a positive way. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 15:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
I only remember the spellbattle between Gromph and the lich from WotSQ book 6 in a positive way.
Now that was a good spellbattle IMO! |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 19:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I'm currently reading, and enjoying, the archwizards trilogy. Most of the characters are great (Malik rules), though there is a few things I don't like.
I don't care much for the main character, Galaeron (sp?), and his star-wars-like slow dark side shift. I also don't like how illithids and beholders are only canon fodder for the Phaerimms. Still, I think the shades are very interesting, not evil to the core and power hungry like the zhentarim or the red wizards. I just started The Sorcerer, and so far it is very good.
return of the archwizards is my favorite trilogy of all time. all due to the shadovar. they are quite entertaining and mysterious, and are not the "cliche" type of villains. in fact, i only read the twilight war trilogy because they're there. i don't even like the main protagonist, cale. [if you are cale's fan, sorry, but he's a character that i find so boring...peace =) ] anyway, i just hope wotc will release a trilogy featuring the shadovar opposing some other powerful characters, szass tam preferably. that'll be quite fun! necromancy versus shadow magic! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2010 : 15:44:15
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I just realized yesterday that not only have I not read any Realms novels in a while, the only stuff I've read from WotC/TSR at all in the last few months has been pdfs at work.
I was alternating between reading Planescape and Al-Qadim sourcebooks, but then I got a batch of Pathfinder stuff, and some of the Iron Kingdoms books... So I've not read any printed D&D material since last year. I did read pdfs of The Illithiad and Darklords at work, recently, but that's it.
I tend to go thru cycles on my reading. I may, after I get done with reading about Jack Ryan (whom I've not visited in a couple of years), revisit Arilyn and Danilo. It's been a while since Danilo's flippant comments have amused me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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How up to date are you with reading FR novels?
Topic Locked
