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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2004 : 03:20:01
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
I will say I believe it has more perhaps to do with the computer gamers these days that want to build power characters no matter the format.
Precisely. I blame James Ohlen!
Glancing at the book, I am interested by the loxo, the Hold the Line feat (I'm not a big fan of the attacks of opportunity under most circumstances), the fluff, and the fact that we know for a fact that the highest-level NPC in the book should be a 29th level diviner (suck it, powergamers! Divination r0xx0rs! And what not). On the other hand, I'm turned off by the thri-kreen (speaking of powergaming, Dark Sun *shudder*), unsure about the Jordain Vizier, and somewhat appalled by the Selective Spell feat, since I fear it will lead to improved selective spell and epic selective spell. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2004 : 06:08:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Neil
Glancing at the book, I am interested by the loxo,
I've long been intrigued by the loxo, ever since I picked up FR15 Gold & Glory. There's some loxo with the Mindulgulph Mercenaries, and the artwork of that group shows one. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 07:14:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Neil
On the other hand, I'm turned off by the thri-kreen (speaking of powergaming, Dark Sun *shudder*),
For the record, I believe the thri-kreen predate Dark Sun -- they were in the first Forgotten Realms Appendix to the Monstrous Compendium. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 07:22:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Neil
On the other hand, I'm turned off by the thri-kreen (speaking of powergaming, Dark Sun *shudder*),
For the record, I believe the thri-kreen predate Dark Sun -- they were in the first Forgotten Realms Appendix to the Monstrous Compendium.
This came up on the WOTC boards also. :)
Here's the answer:
Faraer wrote: "I checked the Dragon Magazine Archive: thri-kreen were designed by Paul Reiche III for Monster Cards Set 2 -- 1982, and Monster Manual II was 1983. But as Dargoth said, they first appeared *in the Realms* in FRC1 Ruins of Adventure."
So they predate 2e and then especially Dark Sun. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 15 Oct 2004 07:23:20 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 07:25:40
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So I just got the book this day. I've barely even had time to flip thru it (that accursed work gig)...
But two things I noted. One is that we now have 3E validation of the comics! Dwalimar Omen, his ship the Realms Master, and its movement source, the Astrolabe of Nimbral, are all mentioned. Sure, I seem to be the only person who cares whether or not the comics are canon, but this still provides plenty of ammo on my side. 
Also, I noted that in the section on Halruaan Skyships, it says a renegade Halruaan wizard let the secret out of how to make these things. This makes me recall a certain renegade Halruaan mentioned in the original Shining South -- a gent named Ramael the Reader. Is this guy mentioned anywhere in the book? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 09:00:15
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Oooo shouldn't be long now til its out over there then  I'm quite excited about this particular tome, especially after reading Counsellors and Kings.
Theres also a web enhancement for this tome over at WotC: Wemic Camp |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 15 Oct 2004 09:01:19 |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 12:01:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
For the record, I believe the thri-kreen predate Dark Sun -- they were in the first Forgotten Realms Appendix to the Monstrous Compendium.
Yeah, I know (although thanks for the archival information, kuje :)). I just associate the PC thri-kreen with Dark Sun. It's more grounded in personal recollection then solid fact, but then again most things are with me.
Although, as an interesting biographical note, the first book appearance of the thri-kreen, the Monster Manual II, was the first AD&D rulebook that I ever bought, back in 1987. The reason that it attracted my attention before the more logical choice of a Player's Handbook or DMG? Because the politics of Hell and the Abyss fascinated me. |
Edited by - Neil on 15 Oct 2004 12:08:47 |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 16:26:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But two things I noted. One is that we now have 3E validation of the comics! Dwalimar Omen, his ship the Realms Master, and its movement source, the Astrolabe of Nimbral, are all mentioned. Sure, I seem to be the only person who cares whether or not the comics are canon, but this still provides plenty of ammo on my side.
LOL! You obviously haven't flipped through it too much, though, or you would've also noticed the rattlyr dragon in there. Even more ammo! 
quote:
Also, I noted that in the section on Halruaan Skyships, it says a renegade Halruaan wizard let the secret out of how to make these things. This makes me recall a certain renegade Halruaan mentioned in the original Shining South -- a gent named Ramael the Reader. Is this guy mentioned anywhere in the book?
No, Ramael does not appear in the product. I don't really remember him in the original, either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't in there--just that my brain is not what it used to be.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 16:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But two things I noted. One is that we now have 3E validation of the comics! Dwalimar Omen, his ship the Realms Master, and its movement source, the Astrolabe of Nimbral, are all mentioned. Sure, I seem to be the only person who cares whether or not the comics are canon, but this still provides plenty of ammo on my side.
LOL! You obviously haven't flipped through it too much, though, or you would've also noticed the rattlyr dragon in there. Even more ammo!
Actually, I had already commented on that, in the thread someone started about the preview bit WotC put on their website last week. 
So is it safe to assume you were also a fan of the comics?
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Also, I noted that in the section on Halruaan Skyships, it says a renegade Halruaan wizard let the secret out of how to make these things. This makes me recall a certain renegade Halruaan mentioned in the original Shining South -- a gent named Ramael the Reader. Is this guy mentioned anywhere in the book?
No, Ramael does not appear in the product. I don't really remember him in the original, either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't in there--just that my brain is not what it used to be.
Thomas
*snickers* Don't feel bad, I had the name wrong in my mind, until I looked it up. I was originally thinking that Random was the renegade, until I pulled out my FR16.
And hey, thanks for taking the time to answer! |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Oct 2004 17:02:25 |
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Cam Beul
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2004 : 21:09:32
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Can someone please tell me if the template in the article to which the link below leads is still valid and canon? I have the SS, and I wasn't sure if maybe the Jordain-born template was eliminated to make the associated PRC more accessible to players, or what.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/jordain |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 04:23:42
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Woot! just got Shining South!!!
Wood Elf, you'll be happy: the Shining South Thri-Kreen offers the option of lowering the level adjustment from +2 to +1 in exchance of losing all psionic-like abilities... :) |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 07:16:27
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I am very happy
I just ordered my copy of Shining South as well. Hopefully I'll have it sometime next week |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2004 : 13:12:18
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quote:
Can someone please tell me if the template in the article to which the link below leads is still valid and canon? I have the SS, and I wasn't sure if maybe the Jordain-born template was eliminated to make the associated PRC more accessible to players, or what.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/jordain
I do not think that it overly matters. It appears to be more a concern for personal choice really.
The Jordain-Born template and Jordain PrC that are presented in the article you've linked to above are just as "canon-related" as anything presented in the SS tome. However, it's sometimes assumed that the more recent workings of a rules-specific item is to be considered the more "canon-related".
But, as I said before, it's really just a question of personal taste. Pick which one better suits your campaign style, and use it...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2004 : 17:08:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So is it safe to assume you were also a fan of the comics?
Well, it was something of the tail wagging the dog, but yes. I went to the comics series because Eric Boyd mentioned that there were some details on parts of the Shining South mentioned therein. But I read them for the fun of it while I was researching and did thoroughly enjoy them.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2004 : 17:12:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Cam Beul
Can someone please tell me if the template in the article to which the link below leads is still valid and canon? I have the SS, and I wasn't sure if maybe the Jordain-born template was eliminated to make the associated PRC more accessible to players, or what.
My original manuscript had the template in it, and the developers removed it and adjusted the prestige class to compensate. I think, in hindsight, that that was a good thing, because the template is so very limited and not much use beyond the prestige class. But if you really like it and want to use it, there's nothing broken about it at all, and it will work just as well as the SS version.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Cam Beul
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 19:53:42
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| Okay, thanks alot! |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2004 : 21:02:17
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Hi Thomas
Just had to pop on and say that you have done a fantastic job with Shining South. This is one of my favorite FR products of all time. The depth and detail is perfect. I'm currently working my way through all the geographical chapters so will be back here within the next few days with a number of questions
Great artists chosen too. Nice cover, especially the back |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 16:51:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Just had to pop on and say that you have done a fantastic job with Shining South. This is one of my favorite FR products of all time. The depth and detail is perfect. I'm currently working my way through all the geographical chapters so will be back here within the next few days with a number of questions
Hey, thanks a lot, Rad. I appreciate the compliments. I have to say, though, that this book wouldn't have been nearly the nice end-product it is without a lot of help from guys like Eric Boyd, Tom Costa, and George Krashos, all of whom supplied me with an endless stream of good resources to draw upon. So tip your hats to them, too, for making my job so much easier and successful.
quote:
Great artists chosen too. Nice cover, especially the back
I wish I could take some sort of credit for the art, but all I did was create the art order--the rest was expertly handled by the WotC art folks. But I'm very happy with it. One of my favorites is the image of Eartheart from inside the Great Rift. The artist took the time to actually duplicate what I had put on the map of the city, and it's an amazing job, exactly what I envisioned.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2004 : 21:37:20
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Indeed, Thomas! I tip my hat to you and all your contributors for this gem of a book!
Thanks for the revised Thri-Kreen! Wood Elf and I really appreciate it -- he has made such a character for the "Rise of the Dead Five" campaign that is about to start in the Adventuring section of these boards!
No chance for a web enhancement giving us more on these alien denizens of the Shaar, hmm? |
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Arnwyn
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 00:31:14
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Anyone know where the "Great Sea Corsair" prestige class is supposed to be? It's referenced a few times in the Shining South book, but it doesn't appear there (or in other FR books).
It looks like it was cut - any chance we'll see it as a web enhancement? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 00:46:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnwyn
Anyone know where the "Great Sea Corsair" prestige class is supposed to be? It's referenced a few times in the Shining South book, but it doesn't appear there (or in other FR books).
It looks like it was cut - any chance we'll see it as a web enhancement?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not just a modification of an existing PrC? I seem to recall reading that in the sidebar, right there in the PrC section (I'm at work and thus cannot check or offer page numbers). |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 00:50:26
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I absolutely love the great sea corsair class.
I hope it sets a precedent that will be followed in many books of the FR to come.
Basically, they just give you a sidebar(half page or so) detailing how to alter an existing PRC to fit the niche this one would provide. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 03:53:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Arnwyn
Anyone know where the "Great Sea Corsair" prestige class is supposed to be? It's referenced a few times in the Shining South book, but it doesn't appear there (or in other FR books).
It looks like it was cut - any chance we'll see it as a web enhancement?
See the bottom of page 26 in Shining South. :) It explains it all..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 04:54:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I absolutely love the great sea corsair class.
I hope it sets a precedent that will be followed in many books of the FR to come.
Basically, they just give you a sidebar(half page or so) detailing how to alter an existing PRC to fit the niche this one would provide.
Good call. This way, instead of having half a dozen prestige classes in ever sourcebook, until the sheer mass of them choke me to death, it seems more effective to just slightly modify existing classes. I'm very pleased with what they've done in the book, and indeed with the entire book itself. First-rate work. |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2004 : 19:16:02
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My copy of Shinning South just arrived! Don't be worried if you don't hear from me for a while
Must assimilate knowledge  |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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nekrolog
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 00:46:51
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This is my first post on these forums, Kuje's logbook of Ed Greenwood's musings lured me over from the Wizards FR forums... I had NO idea what I was missing!
Mr. Reid sir,
I absolutely loved the regional chapter on Luiren... I've been waiting for years to read something in depth about the halfling homeland. It was my favorite chapter in the book, and you really did the little guys justice.
I also wanted to ask about the Great Rift region. It seems to have been paid little attention comparitavely, specifically in the area of their culture and society. Was that just because they are so similar to shield dwarves, or because of space constraints? I did enjoy what did make it in about them. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 01:51:43
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quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
This is my first post on these forums, Kuje's logbook of Ed Greenwood's musings lured me over from the Wizards FR forums... I had NO idea what I was missing!
YAY! I corrupted another one! My job for the day is done! |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 02:12:05
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quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
This is my first post on these forums, Kuje's logbook of Ed Greenwood's musings lured me over from the Wizards FR forums... I had NO idea what I was missing!
Welcome nekrolog and fine job Kuje.
quote:
Mr. Reid sir,
You know you've done a good job as a writer/designer if they start with sir. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2004 : 22:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
I wish I could take some sort of credit for the art, but all I did was create the art order--the rest was expertly handled by the WotC art folks. But I'm very happy with it. One of my favorites is the image of Eartheart from inside the Great Rift. The artist took the time to actually duplicate what I had put on the map of the city, and it's an amazing job, exactly what I envisioned.
Thomas
That was another area I meant to mention, I noticed the close relation between the plan of Eartheart and the translation of it in the picture. Very well done indeed.
The Landrise was also surprisingly good, the write-up was quite eerie and made me look at it with a whole new light.
The geographical chapters of the book are stunning and I thank you greatly Thomas for putting so much detail and lore into the this. I hope all FR designers follow your lead with the quality of Shining South. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2004 : 16:10:24
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Thomas, just a quick question...
What made WotC decide to put your resources into Shining South? The reason I ask, is that sourcebooks have been known lately to tie in with novels (Windwalker and Unapproachable East, Serpent Kingdoms and Venom's Taste...), so why a sourcebook for the Shining South? Admittedly, the region has been sparsely covered before, only having (to my knowledge), Elaine Cunningham's Counsellors and Kings Trilogy and the old Shining South 2nd edition sourcebook (FR16).
..Unless theres some upcoming novel\trilogy you may know about set in the Shining South?
Regardless, i'm very glad you were chosen - an excellent job |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 25 Oct 2004 16:11:08 |
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The Shining South Sourcebook
