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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 03:13:02
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quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
I absolutely loved the regional chapter on Luiren... I've been waiting for years to read something in depth about the halfling homeland. It was my favorite chapter in the book, and you really did the little guys justice.
That's great to hear. I'm glad you enjoyed it. 
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I also wanted to ask about the Great Rift region. It seems to have been paid little attention comparitavely, specifically in the area of their culture and society. Was that just because they are so similar to shield dwarves, or because of space constraints? I did enjoy what did make it in about them.
Purely space constraints. I think we all know that just about every region covered in one of these sourcebooks could easily fill the entire book with fabulous detail, but it's just not practical. The Great Rift, in particular, needs more attention. It's been far too long since the old 2E FR product, Dwarves Deep, appeared. But the timing of an update, if one is to come, is for others to decide.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 03:17:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
[quote]Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
The Landrise was also surprisingly good, the write-up was quite eerie and made me look at it with a whole new light.
Yeah, I liked that, too. I derived the idea of the hanging coffins from a History Channel program I saw about a similar set-up in a mountainous region of China. Very bizarre and eerie, as you said.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 03:18:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
What made WotC decide to put your resources into Shining South?
I have no idea what prompted them to put it next on the schedule. There is no tie-in with another product that I'm aware of.
quote:
Regardless, i'm very glad you were chosen - an excellent job 
Thank you, Sir!
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 04:55:04
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First off, let me see I'm quite impressed with how Shining South has turned out. From artwork to topic coverage, I'm very happy.
I am, however, left with a question. Being mechanics-minded on occasion, I find the definition of the Adama as a patron deity to be lacking. There are two prestige classes in the book dedicated to this world view, one of which is geared at attracting clerics (Hand of the Adama). The problem, as I see it, is that the cleric of the Adama doesn't have a "clerical stat block" to work from. What are his allowable alignments? From what domains may he choose? What is the favored weapon of his deity? All of these questions help define--statistically speaking--the various faiths in Faerūn, and are left unanswered by the book.
Since Thomas has been so kind with his time and energy here, I may as well ask: what were your intended-yet-unspoken answers to these questions? Do they rely entirely on the aspect of the Adama selected as "patron?" If so, are these patrons only selectable from the five 'main' Adama aspects, or the entire pantheon? Does the inclusion of a deity expand the permissable alignments of her clerics (clerics of Selūne, for example, would be otherwise unable to become Hands of the Adama)?
I'm only terribly curious.  |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2004 : 14:20:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The problem, as I see it, is that the cleric of the Adama doesn't have a "clerical stat block" to work from. What are his allowable alignments? From what domains may he choose? What is the favored weapon of his deity? What were your intended-yet-unspoken answers to these questions? Do they rely entirely on the aspect of the Adama selected as "patron?" If so, are these patrons only selectable from the five 'main' Adama aspects, or the entire pantheon? Does the inclusion of a deity expand the permissable alignments of her clerics (clerics of Selūne, for example, would be otherwise unable to become Hands of the Adama)?
Though the patron deity of the prestige class is listed as "The Adama," the truth of the matter is that the Adama is not a deity in and of itself. It is simply a way of life, a set of principles by which to live. Thus, you really have two choices. Most often, clerics of the faith will still venerate a specific deity (almost always one of the five main "aspects" with an appropriate alignment--LG or LN, as stated in the Requirements section of the entry) in addition to his belief in the tenets of the Adama. Alternatively, the cleric can be treated as a cleric with no patron deity (as described in the Player's Handbook).
This second option flies in the face of what's stated in the FRCS, I realize, and very few characters will start out that way (since most folks will want the added benefits of a selected patron deity when creating their cleric characters), but it would be, IMO, the truest or purest form of belief in the Adama.
Does that help?
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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nekrolog
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 01:05:15
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Thanks for the reply Sage Reid !
Lord Rad, you reminded me of something with your novel/accessory book tie in question... I bought Serpent Kingdoms at about the same time I bought SS, and I thought that the two complemented each other very well. Almost to the point that they felt like companion books. There were a few minor points where they should have had shared information but didnt, but that was mostly small mechanical stuff (and therefore not important to me). In regards to regional and historical lore, they tied together so well that I can't open one without having the other on hand as well.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2089 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 02:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
Thanks for the reply Sage Reid !
Lord Rad, you reminded me of something with your novel/accessory book tie in question... I bought Serpent Kingdoms at about the same time I bought SS, and I thought that the two complemented each other very well. Almost to the point that they felt like companion books. There were a few minor points where they should have had shared information but didnt, but that was mostly small mechanical stuff (and therefore not important to me). In regards to regional and historical lore, they tied together so well that I can't open one without having the other on hand as well.
We tried to make them compatible but not dependent.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 07:46:36
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According to the way the PGtF describes psionics working, I am more than comfortable with someone's belief reaching such a state that it creates a similiar "quasi weave" allowing them to cast some spells through the power of their belief.
It's by no means something Isee being all too common, or easy to achieve, in fact I would say a character would rarely be able to reach such a state of transcendental consciousness.
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
The problem, as I see it, is that the cleric of the Adama doesn't have a "clerical stat block" to work from. What are his allowable alignments? From what domains may he choose? What is the favored weapon of his deity? What were your intended-yet-unspoken answers to these questions? Do they rely entirely on the aspect of the Adama selected as "patron?" If so, are these patrons only selectable from the five 'main' Adama aspects, or the entire pantheon? Does the inclusion of a deity expand the permissable alignments of her clerics (clerics of Selūne, for example, would be otherwise unable to become Hands of the Adama)?
Though the patron deity of the prestige class is listed as "The Adama," the truth of the matter is that the Adama is not a deity in and of itself. It is simply a way of life, a set of principles by which to live. Thus, you really have two choices. Most often, clerics of the faith will still venerate a specific deity (almost always one of the five main "aspects" with an appropriate alignment--LG or LN, as stated in the Requirements section of the entry) in addition to his belief in the tenets of the Adama. Alternatively, the cleric can be treated as a cleric with no patron deity (as described in the Player's Handbook).
This second option flies in the face of what's stated in the FRCS, I realize, and very few characters will start out that way (since most folks will want the added benefits of a selected patron deity when creating their cleric characters), but it would be, IMO, the truest or purest form of belief in the Adama.
Does that help?
Thomas
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Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
My first stab at realms fiction, here at candlekeep. Stop on by and tell me what you think. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 09:25:25
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quote:
Originally posted by nekrolog
Thanks for the reply Sage Reid !
Lord Rad, you reminded me of something with your novel/accessory book tie in question... I bought Serpent Kingdoms at about the same time I bought SS, and I thought that the two complemented each other very well. Almost to the point that they felt like companion books. There were a few minor points where they should have had shared information but didnt, but that was mostly small mechanical stuff (and therefore not important to me). In regards to regional and historical lore, they tied together so well that I can't open one without having the other on hand as well.
Thats interesting to hear. I haven't looked through Serpent Kingdoms for a while, which areas in particular did you think tied in well with Shining South and which do you think were lacking shared information? |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 14:06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Thats interesting to hear. I haven't looked through Serpent Kingdoms for a while, which areas in particular did you think tied in well with Shining South?
I was reading the Dambrath section last night and the Ilimar passages discussing the nagas and sarrukh were nice tie ins to SK. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2089 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 19:33:04
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The geographical areas of tie-in include Azulduth (Lake of Salt), ruins of Lhespen, Ilimar, and of course the whole Mhair Jungles - Lapaliiya - Ormpur region.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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nekrolog
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2004 : 20:08:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Thats interesting to hear. I haven't looked through Serpent Kingdoms for a while, which areas in particular did you think tied in well with Shining South and which do you think were lacking shared information?
Eric summed it up pretty well. The regional info in SS was stuff that a DM wouldn't mind his players knowing, and SK reveals it all to the DM in great detail.
The stuff that didn't jive was very small, and is explained by Eric's statement that the books have to stand on their own.
OT: wow, a lot of authors hang around here. I live near Seattle, and my roommate and a few friends are freelance writers. Anyone know Angel McCoy? |
Edited by - nekrolog on 27 Oct 2004 20:15:42 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 12:48:35
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This finally arrived the other day and all I can say is I'm damn impressed. Despite Thomas' over-generous "thanks", all I did was supply a bunch of "South" references which I see were incorporated into the general product pretty much seamlessly. The only (minor) gripe which has nothing to do with Thomas' work, is that there were more than a few place/people typos - especially on the maps. A minor quibble in the universal scheme of things. I especially liked the previously non-fleshed out Var, Estagund, et. al places which wre greatly expanded on and given Realms and historical context. The genesis of the "Land of Monsters" was genius. I liked this alot. Great job, Thomas. May WotC send more projects (and dead presidents) your way.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 15:39:10
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
This finally arrived the other day and all I can say is I'm damn impressed. Despite Thomas' over-generous "thanks", all I did was supply a bunch of "South" references which I see were incorporated into the general product pretty much seamlessly. The only (minor) gripe which has nothing to do with Thomas' work, is that there were more than a few place/people typos - especially on the maps. A minor quibble in the universal scheme of things. I especially liked the previously non-fleshed out Var, Estagund, et. al places which wre greatly expanded on and given Realms and historical context. The genesis of the "Land of Monsters" was genius. I liked this alot. Great job, Thomas. May WotC send more projects (and dead presidents) your way.
-- George Krashos
Yeah, the history of Veldorn was well done, and I liked the info on the Shining Lands.
I noticed some typos, as well, but only a few -- not nearly as bad as the Player's Guide to Faerūn. No new months, this time.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2005 : 02:47:31
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I just got this product this week as a delayed Christmas present. Yeah I know it is kind of late. First off I really like this product especially the "new" areas covered in more detail.
But I found some conflicting information regarding the history of the Shining lands, at least as I see it, where as it is stated
-2488 Imaskar falls. Left without guidance, the subject-states of Durpar and Gundavar fall into barbarism.
Since the only way to the Shining lands, that would be a narrow pass through the Dustwall, had been blocked by a magical iron gate in fact creating a dead magic zone. The lowlands where still covered in think jungles, so an army would have had a really hard time getting through there.
But then again it says in Races of Faerun that the Imaskari empire stretched as far south as the golden water, now if it is literally or just "to and not past" is another question. Then they might have just cut of a few mountain tops and airdrop the armies in But somehow I feel this must have happened quiet early in their plan of expansion. Thus it gives two options, the Golden water was sealed of for the Raurinese or they found away to get their armies onto the other side of the Dustwall as they grew more powerful. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
Edited by - Hymn on 13 Jan 2005 02:52:18 |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 14:36:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Since the only way to the Shining lands, that would be a narrow pass through the Dustwall, had been blocked by a magical iron gate in fact creating a dead magic zone. The lowlands where still covered in think jungles, so an army would have had a really hard time getting through there.
I'm not familiar with this information you cited, but I can tell you that the information from the timeline came from the original 2E product The Shining Lands, and I picked it up from there. Since it was just something that was mentioned in passing, I didn't go back to see what other sources might have said about the reach of the Imaskari, but it struck me as logical, because I could see the Imaskari controlling the area that is current-day Veldorn, too.
Regardless, if what you're saying is accurate, the Imaskari could very well have come up with some alternate means of traveling back and forth (portal, tunnel systems under the mountains, alternate passes through the mountains that have since been lost to earthquakes/rockslides, etc.). There are always ways for powerful empires to solve problems if they put their collective minds to them.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 17:20:02
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| If it was up to me, I'd say they found a route through the underdark to get there. That just seems to fit with the Imaskari. |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2005 : 17:35:10
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| Probably true, the information about the gate of iron can be found in the Hordes boxed set or here http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/imaskar.htm If you want to find out what the heck I am pestering you about Well I read the accessory from cover to cover now. Really nice work there Thomas I hope you are proud. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2005 : 08:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger
If it was up to me, I'd say they found a route through the underdark to get there. That just seems to fit with the Imaskari.
Sorry Fletch, but I don't particularly like that suggestion . The Imaskari have always been about the magic... I would think that Mr. Reid's suggestion of portal travel would be the more accurate.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Jan 2005 07:41:22 |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 06:45:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Probably true, the information about the gate of iron can be found in the Hordes boxed set or here http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/imaskar.htm If you want to find out what the heck I am pestering you about
Cool. Thanks for the link. I'm not sure what to tell you other than what I mentioned before. I guess it's still possible that the Imaskari exerted influence over Durpar for a brief time even after the Gate of Iron was built. Since the reference says the gate was built over 4,000 years ago, and the date of the fall is listed as -2488 (so nearly 3,900 years ago), maybe the sealing of the gate was the beginning of the end. And as they vanished, the Durpari lost the positive effects of their influence along with the negative.
quote:
Well I read the accessory from cover to cover now. Really nice work there Thomas I hope you are proud.
Thanks, I appreciate that.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 07:50:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
Cool. Thanks for the link. I'm not sure what to tell you other than what I mentioned before. I guess it's still possible that the Imaskari exerted influence over Durpar for a brief time even after the Gate of Iron was built. Since the reference says the gate was built over 4,000 years ago, and the date of the fall is listed as -2488 (so nearly 3,900 years ago), maybe the sealing of the gate was the beginning of the end. And as they vanished, the Durpari lost the positive effects of their influence along with the negative.
It's possible I suppose, as Hymn mentioned. However, considering such a brief amount of time, how much could the Imaskari have really influenced Durpar?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2005 : 17:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It's possible I suppose, as Hymn mentioned. However, considering such a brief amount of time, how much could the Imaskari have really influenced Durpar?
Here's how I would approach this. At some point long ago, the Imaskari empire at its heyday included what is the current-day Shining Lands (particularly Durpar, Estagund, and Var the Golden). At some point a little over 4,000 years ago, the people of the Shining Lands, seeking independence, erected the Gate of Iron. It occured about the same time that the Imaskari began to slide into oblivion because of their own slaves rebelling, etc. Perhaps there was some limited amount of contact between the Imaskari and the people of the Shining Lands, between the time the gate was erected and the end of the empire, but the marching of armies was effectively halted.
In -2488, when the Imaskari empire finally crumbled, it marked the end of cultural, political, and mercantile influence from the Imaskari people upon the people of the Golden Water region. Not too surprisingly, the Durpari were unable to maintain their own level of civilization, lost their way, and fell into barbarism.
Pattern it after the fall of Rome and the subsequent effects of the Dark Ages in Western Europe. The native peoples were subjects of the Roman Empire, but they rebelled and fought to be free. After Roman influence vanished from their lands, though, they fell into a period of cultural decline, and the decline happened rapidly, in the course of a quarter-century.
I'm sure there are some other conflicting points in there, but it's a start.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2005 : 00:43:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wood Elf Ranger
If it was up to me, I'd say they found a route through the underdark to get there. That just seems to fit with the Imaskari.
Sorry Fletch, but I don't particularly like that suggestion . The Imaskari have always been about the magic... I would think that Mr. Reid's suggestion of portal travel would be the more accurate.
But of course Sage, I did not say they did not use portals. They used portals to the underdark just under the city so as to not be detected and to ensure surprise as they swarmed up from beneath the city |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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The Shining South Sourcebook
