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The Silhouette
Acolyte
25 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 02:16:54
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I have yet another quetions that I wish to find the answer of. I turn to you all. After deciding on working on my own world of writting, I began the work and development on it. While working on the history of a particular region, I wondered if I could add dark elves. So I ask, may I use dark elves in my world, or are they for Toril only?
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With the rise there are boundries, those that let those boundries get in the way, let the rise become their fall. |
Edited by - Alaundo on 01 Nov 2004 08:31:14
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Taelohn
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 02:39:58
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There were drow in Greyhawk before they showed up in the Realms, IIRC.
They're also in the SRD, and thus Open Gaming Content - so yes, you would be able to use them. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 02:43:46
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The Dark Elves are not exclusive to Toril. Many settings have their own version of the classic "drow" theme from 1e. For example, the newest campaign setting, Eberron, has scorpion-worshipping dark elves that were once mercenary warriors for an ancient giant empire. We still know very little about these drow at the moment. Dragonlance has dark elves as well, but these elves are simply elves that have chosen to follow a path completely opposite to that of the rest of elven society. As such, they are cast out of all the societies of elves on Ansalon. There is no "obsidian" skin involved with these drow.
What I would suggest in your case, is to search through the Monster section of 'System Reference Document (SRD) over on the D&D site at Wizards.com. There you'll find which monsters from the various monsters tomes from WotC have been deemed 'Open Gaming Content' (OGC) which will allow you to use the stats for whatever creature has been classified (OGC) in your homebrew campaigns. You must however, provide your own background material and source information, as that information is the 'Intellectual Property' (IP) of WotC.
As far as I recall, the dark elves are included in the SRD, so you're safe to utilise them in your homebrew setting with any issues.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 03:20:56
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A lot of authors and settings have dark elves, and they use them in different ways...
Dragonstar, another D20 setting, has drow -- and since Mezzenbone has ascended to the throne, they are his secret police.
Another direction for dark elves would be the way Krynn does it. Dark elves aren't a separate race, they're members of one of the regular elven races, but have been cast out from their parent society. Dalamar is a great example of this.
Still another direction to go is the moredhel of Raymond E Feist's Riftwar books. In his books, there were four separate but quite similar races of elves. Physically, the races were identical. All of the differences were psychological, and traced back to their earliest history. On Midkemia, the elven people were originally slaves of a very powerful race, the Valheru. The eldar were closest to the Valheru, acting as lorekeepers and administrators and such as that. When the Valheru vanished, the eldar did, too -- but they later turned up, and proved to be the most powerful race of elves. The eledhel were the keepers of the forests, and basically are your standard fantasy elves. The moredhel are also found in the forest, but they follow the Dark Path, trying to reclaim the lost power of the Valheru. In one of the novels, a moredhel Returns from the Dark Path, and, after a brief ritual, becomes an eledhel. The fourth race, the glamredhel, are like wild elves. They were supposedly wiped out by the moredhel, but later popped back up.
So, you can do dark elves in a lot of ways, not just with drow.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 03:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Dragonstar, another D20 setting, has drow -- and since Mezzenbone has ascended to the throne, they are his secret police.
I was intending on mentioning Dragonstar, however I thought that Alaundo would seem fit to use his mighty staff should I mention a sci-fi d20 game here at Candlekeep...  
Do you play DS Wooly? Contact me by PM... I have questions  .
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Lysander
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 03:59:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Dragonstar, another D20 setting, has drow -- and since Mezzenbone has ascended to the throne, they are his secret police.
I was intending on mentioning Dragonstar, however I thought that Alaundo would seem fit to use his mighty staff should I mention a sci-fi d20 game here at Candlekeep...
Do you play DS Wooly? Contact me by PM... I have questions .
Perhaps a section at Worlds? |
Lysander
Defender of the Second Edition
Moderator, Project Gemengan, Worlds of D&D |
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Wood Elf Ranger
Senior Scribe
USA
627 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 04:31:05
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Don't forget Warcraft. That setting has Night Elves that to me seem a mix of moon elves and drow from the FR.
But yes I agree let us continue this conversation over at the Worlds |
~Lee N.
"Breaktime yes?!.. Yes?.. Maybe?.. Noo, baaack to work.." -Grovel the Goblin from NWN: HotU |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 05:03:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Lysander
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Dragonstar, another D20 setting, has drow -- and since Mezzenbone has ascended to the throne, they are his secret police.
I was intending on mentioning Dragonstar, however I thought that Alaundo would seem fit to use his mighty staff should I mention a sci-fi d20 game here at Candlekeep...
Do you play DS Wooly? Contact me by PM... I have questions .
Perhaps a section at Worlds?
That may not be possible, as I recall both Alaundo and Strahd mentioning that only fantasy D&D settings were to be discussed at Worlds. It's a shame really...  DS was a little gem...  That is, for the entire one and a half years of it's production run... 
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 07:56:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
For example, the newest campaign setting, Eberron, has scorpion-worshipping dark elves that were once mercenary warriors for an ancient giant empire. We still know very little about these drow at the moment.
I didn't even know that  . Where did you learn this?
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5696 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 08:30:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That may not be possible, as I recall both Alaundo and Strahd mentioning that only fantasy D&D settings were to be discussed at Worlds. It's a shame really... DS was a little gem... That is, for the entire one and a half years of it's production run...
Well met
My word, Sage, ye remembered!  Alas, the Sage is correct, only D&D worlds are covered o'er yonder. We may revise this at some point, however. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 09:24:44
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[::marks calander: "Today Alaundo suggested an expansion of topic base!!!"::] |
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 12:31:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Taelohn
There were drow in Greyhawk before they showed up in the Realms, IIRC.
They're also in the SRD, and thus Open Gaming Content - so yes, you would be able to use them.
Unless you are writing campaigns for publication, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use the Lolth-worshipping dark-skinned ever-so-popular bad-boys(and girls) of fantasy in your campaign.
I really never understood this tendancy of certain scribes to limit themselves to canon material.
IMO inventing histories are some of the most fun elements of DM'ing. For my campaign I use the realms as a base but gods help the poor sap who tells me I can't have a starship crash into Waterdeep if I feel like it.  |
Artalis
Email
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Capn Charlie
Senior Scribe
USA
418 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 13:28:13
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Unless I widely miss my mark, she is referring to more novelistic writing than a campaign. Also, it is not going to be set in the realms, making canon status irrelevant. And finally, there are plenty of good reasons. Like Afidavits, subpoenas, and cease and desist orders.
Oh, and horse heads in your bed. |
Shadows of War: Tales of a Mercenary
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 14:30:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
For example, the newest campaign setting, Eberron, has scorpion-worshipping dark elves that were once mercenary warriors for an ancient giant empire. We still know very little about these drow at the moment.
I didn't even know that . Where did you learn this?
It's speculation really. Keith Baker has been dropping hints here and there, or at least, as many as can be allowed by the multitudes of NDAs he's presently under.
From what we've determined, the drow of Eberron are indeed mercenaries, and they do have a connection to the ancient giant civilisation from the time before the conjunction with Xoriat. Everything after that, is what we've been able to piece together.
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Artalis
Senior Scribe
USA
444 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 16:03:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Unless I widely miss my mark, she is referring to more novelistic writing than a campaign. Also, it is not going to be set in the realms, making canon status irrelevant. And finally, there are plenty of good reasons. Like Afidavits, subpoenas, and cease and desist orders.
Oh, and horse heads in your bed.
Ah agreed, such indeed would be a grevious error. I suppose I didn't read the question carefully enough. Such marks my lackluster return to active posting.
In that case check the individual texts the concept of "Drow" and for copyright information. Using their unique look and ideas of an evil society could easily be seen as intellectual property theft. I'm not sure if they are trademarked or whatever but personally when creating a new world...I'd stay away from them. Better to be unique and create your own brand.
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Artalis
Email
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Edited by - Artalis on 01 Nov 2004 16:05:55 |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 21:47:53
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| for yet another kind of "dark elves", try ravenloftīs "the shadow rift" (TSR 1163) with itīs shadow elfes. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2004 : 05:20:08
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quote:
Originally posted by tauster
for yet another kind of "dark elves", try ravenloftīs "the shadow rift" (TSR 1163) with itīs shadow elfes.
Or the more recent 3e RL tome, Van Richten's Guide to the Shadow Fey, which is by far the more... informative sourcebook. I'm sure Lord Rad would agree .
Just as a note though, I wouldn't completely class the shadow fey as the RL equivalent of the dark elves. There are comparable differences, not the least of which is the sith's greater connection to all-things-ethereal.
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2004 : 12:04:57
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| Although its not out until February, a book which may be of interest to you (it is to me anyway), is The Tome of Drow Lore - by Mongoose Publishing. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2004 : 13:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
Although its not out until February, a book which may be of interest to you (it is to me anyway), is The Tome of Drow Lore - by Mongoose Publishing.
I've heard very little about this tome. In fact, the last I heard, it's original concept had been shelved back in early June.
Do you have any further details, Rad?
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2004 : 13:57:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I've heard very little about this tome. In fact, the last I heard, it's original concept had been shelved back in early June.
The Tome of Drow Lore is scheduled currently for a February release. It's part of Mongoose's Classic Play line of products. Below is the only details I have seen on this item as reported by Gaming Report
quote:
Tome of Drow Lore HardCover (d20) - $34.95
This d20 tome re-visits one of the most fascinating races in gaming fantasy - the Drow - in never-before-seen detail
I'll be very curious to see what rules heavy Mongoose considers to be lore. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2004 : 14:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I've heard very little about this tome. In fact, the last I heard, it's original concept had been shelved back in early June.
The Tome of Drow Lore is scheduled currently for a February release. It's part of Mongoose's Classic Play line of products. Below is the only details I have seen on this item as reported by Gaming Report
quote:
Tome of Drow Lore HardCover (d20) - $34.95
This d20 tome re-visits one of the most fascinating races in gaming fantasy - the Drow - in never-before-seen detail
I'll be very curious to see what rules heavy Mongoose considers to be lore.
Ah. Thanks Sirius .
Of course, now I'm left wondering what more can be written about the drow, since they've received so much focus over the last few years... and let us not forget that 2002-2003 was the "Year of the Drow".
What more could possibly be written about the dark elves, that would equate with "never-before-seen detail"?
Curious...
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2004 : 14:32:35
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Of course, now I'm left wondering what more can be written about the drow, since they've received so much focus over the last few years... and let us not forget that 2002-2003 was the "Year of the Drow".
What more could possibly be written about the dark elves, that would equate with "never-before-seen detail"?
Curious...
Dear Cyric as long as it's not the same old, same old, it would be refreshing. I think we all have enough books now detailing dark elves are evil. If they want to impress me, do something different. Anything different from the same old theme. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2004 : 17:33:02
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A fan site for some other world has a new dark elven goddess:
Drow Goddess of Sun and Earth.
Just in case anyone finds use for the article in their Realms campaign. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2004 : 21:48:10
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| I don't think it fits very well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2004 : 02:13:37
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Actually, I think that it would fit. Taking a scapel to the dates and strictly GH references, an imaginative DM could probably generate a background that is more Realms-oriented.
Looking through the write-up, there's very little in the way of GH geography mentioned, so that's a plus. The relationships between the various elven deities mentioned in the text could most likely be shuffled around to make this interpretation more in line with the FR Underdark and the Drow pantheon.
And, since we already have a "good"-aligned drow deity, in the form of Eilistraee, this new deity isn't really shattering any "sacred" principles of the core FR setting.
I like this... In fact, ideas are stirring...
Hmmm... I might contact IvorMac and ask him if I can use his material to create a Realms interpretation of Harvalsharess. I may even try to submit it as part of the Candlekeep Compendium.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2004 : 03:19:22
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But this requires somewhat of a rewrite (unless done as a "new deity") of a lot of events. Not minor is the fact that she's a goddess of the earth, which means she'd penatrate somewhat into the Underdark. Elistraee is, as far as the other drow deities are concerned, a nuisance. A very real one, and also an insult, but they don't conflict heavily. If they have to deal with a good deity in the Underdark, then you have some problems.
And, even if you don't go too far into the Underdark, you still get conflicts with Chauntea. Now, Chauntea's a nice gal, so she won't be too upset, but she and other nature gods already take care of everything, so there's not much need for another earth goddess.
About the only thing that doesn't really conflict with other gods is the sun aspect. There might be a little with Lathander (especially considering that god's ego), but her porfolio's different from his. (He'd just be miffed that there's someone else associated with the sun.) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2004 : 07:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
But this requires somewhat of a rewrite (unless done as a "new deity") of a lot of events. Not minor is the fact that she's a goddess of the earth, which means she'd penatrate somewhat into the Underdark. Elistraee is, as far as the other drow deities are concerned, a nuisance. A very real one, and also an insult, but they don't conflict heavily. If they have to deal with a good deity in the Underdark, then you have some problems.
And, even if you don't go too far into the Underdark, you still get conflicts with Chauntea. Now, Chauntea's a nice gal, so she won't be too upset, but she and other nature gods already take care of everything, so there's not much need for another earth goddess.
About the only thing that doesn't really conflict with other gods is the sun aspect. There might be a little with Lathander (especially considering that god's ego), but her porfolio's different from his. (He'd just be miffed that there's someone else associated with the sun.)
I'd already considered that, which is why I'd suggested that only truly imaginative DMs could actually pull something like this off . The fact that extensive reworking would need to be carried out on some of the more central themes of the drow in the Realms would naturally strike many DMs as simply a waste of time.
Another fact to note, is that not all FR DMs run their campaigns expressly as set down in the FRCS. There's no doubt many campaigns that operate with vastly different Underdark environments (different in regards to the Realms standard), complete with both alternate drow internal politics, and relations between themselves as a race, and their deities. In fact, there are many 1e GH gamers who utilise the Oerth interpretation of the Underdark in their FR campaigns.
Sirius was essentially correct in the fact that some would find the article interesting, but then also, it would not be for every type of FR campaign.
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Using dark elves outside the Realms
