| Author |
 Topic  |
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 02 May 2005 : 15:52:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
The biggest thing that irritates me about this series(after the deaths of ryld and pharaun) is House Baenre. I mean, Loith is the goddess of chaos, and Baenre has been around for so long now! It practically goes against Loiths faith to let them rule Menzoberranzan for this long!
Yes, even in this series, where it apprently was not "untouchable" but could have been killed or destroyed, that House made it through. Not only did that House make it through but many other figures/institutions previously established made it through alive. Funny how that worked out. But, here's a safety tip for anyone in a natural disaster. Grab a copy of Resurrection as the force from mother nature sweeps you away. With the charmed lives these institutions/characters seemed to have in this novel, some of the luck should rub off and you'll be safe. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 02 May 2005 15:58:35 |
 |
|
|
ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2089 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 19:11:06
|
Look at how long House Baenre had ruled Menzoberranzan as of Drizzt's birth, detailed in the original novel Homeland and in the boxed set Menzoberranzan.
Somehow, despite the ever-changing chaos that engulfs the city, House Baenre has hung on for many centuries.
It would be strange if the House suddenly fell ... the events presented in the various books focusing on the city are just recent examples of what House Baenre has been dealing with all that time.
--Eric |
--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 19:22:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Look at how long House Baenre had ruled Menzoberranzan as of Drizzt's birth, detailed in the original novel Homeland and in the boxed set Menzoberranzan.
Somehow, despite the ever-changing chaos that engulfs the city, House Baenre has hung on for many centuries.
It would be strange if the House suddenly fell ... the events presented in the various books focusing on the city are just recent examples of what House Baenre has been dealing with all that time.
--Eric
How about becoming 2nd House for awhile?
It would depend on how much the other 7 Houses had in arcane magic and how much House Baenre relies on Divine magic.
I seen to recall though that the first House had aquired so much power that it matched the next 7 in power. Taking out such a House would require a major alliance of more then 7 Houses and most Drow alliances do not last long at all. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 19:57:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Somehow, despite the ever-changing chaos that engulfs the city, House Baenre has hung on for many centuries.
Indeed, they are so powerful Lolth has a return to sender label for some Baenre figures that die.
I wonder what the USPS would charge for postage like that?  |
|
|
|
khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 20:30:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Somehow, despite the ever-changing chaos that engulfs the city, House Baenre has hung on for many centuries.
Indeed, they are so powerful Lolth has a return to sender label for some Baenre figures that die.
I wonder what the USPS would charge for postage like that?
This is precisely my point. Chaos and change is what Lolth LIKES, and here we have a house that has hung on for 2000 years. That`s almost heresy against Lolth!! |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
|
|
|
Sticks
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:11:27
|
| I imagine that any surviving relatives of Danifae Yauntyrr will be kicking their trailers to the curb and will be moving in next to Quenthel. Once word gets out that Quenthel didn't get the job as Yor'thae and a former houseless battle captive is now the eight face of Lolth, the House of Baenre will have to be more diligent so they can stay on top of the heap. Danifae's story will have to be an inspiration to the lesser houses. This is assumong Quenthel did as she was told and did tell Lolth's followers what happened. I can't see Quenthel disobeying a direct charge. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:11:48
|
Here's a question I was just asked by an FR fan...
Which FR tome did the following characters/elements first appear?
House Baenre
Triel Baenre
Quenthel Baenre
Gromph Baenre
Menzoberranzan
Ched Nasad
Thanks in advance for any assistance here.
SB |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:19:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Here's a question I was just asked by an FR fan...
Which FR tome did the following characters/elements first appear?
House Baenre
Triel Baenre
Quenthel Baenre
Gromph Baenre
Menzoberranzan
Ched Nasad
Thanks in advance for any assistance here.
SB
Tome is to general.... do you mean sourcebooks or novels? :) Sourcebooks I'd say the Menzoberranzan box set. Novels then RAS's early Drizzt novels...... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 02 May 2005 21:20:20 |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:22:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Tome is to general.... do you mean sourcebooks or novels? :) Sourcebooks I'd say the Menzoberranzan box set. Novels then RAS's Drizzt's novels.
First product or item specific enough. In other words be it novel or gaming product, what is the first publication to contain these characters or elements? |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:40:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Tome is to general.... do you mean sourcebooks or novels? :) Sourcebooks I'd say the Menzoberranzan box set. Novels then RAS's Drizzt's novels.
First product or item specific enough. In other words be it novel or gaming product, what is the first publication to contain these characters or elements?
See my quoted reply above. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:45:36
|
| Anyone know which specific novels for each then? |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:45:45
|
I concur Menzoberranzan box set is the first printed item I can recall that contained the list. Unless RAS introduced a name sooner.
Would need to check pub. dates.
|
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Freakboy
Seeker
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:48:17
|
| The first novel/product with the House Baenre and a mention of Gromph and Triel is Homeland. In Exile Ched Nasad is first mentioned as the place Shi'Nayne Do'Urden was off visiting as an explanation for how Malice got another "daughter" when House Hunett was destroyed. Quenthel was first mentioned in Legacy, Starless Night, and Siege of Darkness by R.A. Salvatore and about that same time, the Menzoberranzan boxed set came out. In that the first large "wave" of info on all the other houses came out though Starless Night, Siege of Darkness and Legacy all had info as well. Hope this helps. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 21:50:14
|
| Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Freakboy. |
|
|
|
Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 02:06:28
|
Gromph was first named 'Gomph' too.
Also, is Gromph the eldest Baenre kid or is Triel older? |
|
|
|
Shere Khan
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 04:42:35
|
Overall Resurrection wasn't a bad book and I found most of the character endings to be appropriate. But...
Pharaun's death wasn't a good "fit" for the character. It would have been karmically more fulfilling had he killed Jeggred himself first, perhaps on Quenthel's orders, before she let him die. Alternatively he could have momentarily dropped his guard due to Danifae's wiles, dying at her hands instead, because were it not for his weakness for a pretty face she'd have been dead way back in book 2. This would have also been a particularly poignant sign of Danifae's fitness to be the Yorthae. As it is there's something very wrong about this ultimately selfish, but extremely intelligent and quick-witted character risking his life so unselfishly on behalf of those he not only dislikes but who had already amply demonstrated their willingness to let him die the second they no longer needed him.Yes I know he wanted to increase his status in Sorcere and staying in House Baenre's good graces was the key to that. Nevertheless staying alive is even more important to one such as Pharaun and thus should have taken priority over possible career advancement. Thus I would have expected Pharaun not to have so fully committed himself to that final battle. He should have had a plan B, keeping something more then an easily countered contingency spell in reserve for the inevitable betrayal he knew was coming.
The bit about Aliisza finding his finger was a nice touch though. I generally don't like to see characters coming back from the dead, but so many ridiculously over the top things have been done in other FR novels, and Pharaun's death is so karmically wrong, that bringing him back is a much lesser crime then leaving him dead in my not so humble opinion.
|
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 05:10:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shere Khan
Overall Resurrection wasn't a bad book and I found most of the character endings to be appropriate. But...
As more time passes and I talk to friends/fellow Realms fans about this novel, I agree that Resurrection wasn't a bad book. But, it wasn't a good book either for this reader. To me, it's a shoulder shrug. I don't love it. I don't hate it. Rather, it's just there and I'm viewing it more and more as a missed opportunity than anything else. |
|
|
|
Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 19:03:17
|
| Amen to that, Sir. Albeit, I felt the first three (possibly four) books were awesome and dead on the money |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 19:06:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ethriel
Amen to that, Sir. Albeit, I felt the first three (possibly four) books were awesome and dead on the money
Agreed. If the series had stopped after the fourth book, I'd consider it the best FR series ever. |
|
|
|
Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 19:17:39
|
Even better: If Vhae iced his mother, told them what was going on and the heroes return to Menzo, ice Horgar, Nimor, Dyrr and Vhok and then defeat the Jaezred Chaulssin as a change in the Dark Elven society comes about...Vhae and EIlistraee teaming up with the whole Crescent Blade thing.
That, or something else, but better than what we got:
Annhilation: The battles explode in Menzo as the heroes return homeinsert huge battles as with the death of Lolth, the Chaulssin presses itself forward at Menzo, along with their pawns and armies
Ressurection: Menzoberranzan and its heroes end up winning the War of the Spider Queen, but face a greater challenge: Rebuilding their society in a way it's never been before |
Edited by - Ethriel on 04 May 2005 19:21:57 |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 19:34:13
|
Ethriel,
I'm sure that's a bit more of a change than WOTC had in mind when this series was envisioned.
SB
|
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 19:39:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Ethriel,
I'm sure that's a bit more of a change than WOTC had in mind when this series was envisioned.
SB
Too bad. I for one would have liked to see drow society rocked to its foundations. |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 19:53:07
|
Well some material change might be nice to see.
Best as I can tell the changes in game are minor, so far (being Greater Goddess by itself does not change anything).
A few people died.
Lolth has a new headquarters. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
R0GUE
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 20:08:36
|
| I was at least looking forward to a change in alignment. I thought for sure she'd wind up NE or CN. |
You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE.  |
|
|
|
Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 20:17:00
|
| Oh, yes, SB, I know....however, it's the change I foolishly hoped we'd see, or something to the effect |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 20:22:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Best as I can tell the changes in game are minor, so far (being Greater Goddess by itself does not change anything).
Yes, it confuses me as to how one could believe that is a major change from this series. I'll simply chalk it up to my ignorance on the subject matter. Thus, I'll ask, what is the difference for a normal dark elven follower now that Lolth is a Greater Goddess? |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 20:40:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Best as I can tell the changes in game are minor, so far (being Greater Goddess by itself does not change anything).
Yes, it confuses me as to how one could believe that is a major change from this series. I'll simply chalk it up to my ignorance on the subject matter. Thus, I'll ask, what is the difference for a normal dark elven follower now that Lolth is a Greater Goddess?
Do not know new Divine rank about the only change an increase in DR are.
Remote Locations (know about more locations of followers at the same time).
Divine Aura Size gets increased which can provide some imunities to followers.
I do not see anything else so far. Of course if Lolth picked up a Domain that could effect power of Clerics as well. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 20:58:22
|
I would not say that becoming a Greater Goddess means nothing, but if you look at the things that Lolth will gain, she will be able to more easily keep track of followers, dabbling in a few more matters in the Prime more easily, and will more easily fend off the attacks of other gods (such as Vhaerun), and while all of that might make her quite formidable in the future, I don't see it having a major campaign effect for a century or so.
Although it does remind me of the good old days, when her clerics would not have had access to 7th level spells unless she was a greater goddess! |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 21:20:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I would not say that becoming a Greater Goddess means nothing, but if you look at the things that Lolth will gain, she will be able to more easily keep track of followers, dabbling in a few more matters in the Prime more easily, and will more easily fend off the attacks of other gods (such as Vhaerun), and while all of that might make her quite formidable in the future, I don't see it having a major campaign effect for a century or so.
Although it does remind me of the good old days, when her clerics would not have had access to 7th level spells unless she was a greater goddess!
It means little to followers.
As far as it goes as better able to defend self that is cosmic scale and Eilistraee certainly could have asked for daddy's help, but did not. As far as it goes Daddy did not stop the minor Demon from becoming a deni-goddess, lessor goddess, itermediate goddess and now a greater goddess.
DR does not stop advanvcement from all indications.
As to able to cast 7th level spells, that only makes sense if book contract was written under prior edition rules. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Votan
Acolyte
Canada
4 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2005 : 21:28:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Best as I can tell the changes in game are minor, so far (being Greater Goddess by itself does not change anything).
Yes, it confuses me as to how one could believe that is a major change from this series. I'll simply chalk it up to my ignorance on the subject matter. Thus, I'll ask, what is the difference for a normal dark elven follower now that Lolth is a Greater Goddess?
I suspect that Lloth does not care about her normal dark elf follower. Instead she is interested in the accumulation of power and prestige. Still, it is hard to see how the destruction of a lot of her clergy and followers could increase her power to that of a Greater God. Normally I would expect to see the opposite.
On the other hand, the whole worshippers -> divine power thing in Forgotten Realms really does confuse me alot. It is a neat idea but it seems to get in the way of story telling more often than not --especially as the Gods of Toril seem to be awfully involved. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Resurrection (WotSQ #6) - SPOILERS
