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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
 Posted - 02 May 2005 : 22:21:11
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We all now a lot about the Time of Troubles, but what do the folk of Faerūn know? Well, this is my view ... As one of lord Mourngrym's soldier, Fessel the Garrulous, said:
"Never name a god by his name, and specially not Sunburst Skull. You see, I have heard folk talk about him as beeing a human from Sembia, but I tell you, rubbish! No human will ever become a god. Divinity is god's business, not owers. I tell you this. There are many gods, more than you can imagine, and some of them, walk among us. That was what happened in the Times of Trouble. A dark an evil god, from the south far beyond the old lad's kingdom and the Stars Sea, came to our Dale and continued further north to the Keep. And treacherous and foolish as the folks of the Moonsea are, they abonded their gods and payed homage to this southern god in hope of gaining bigger riches. Now, you know what price they have payed now, don't you? The Dark Lord sent his evil dragons and giants from the north to destroy the Old Keep."
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Edited by - webmanus on 03 May 2005 00:17:22
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 23:28:11
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I'd imagine that there's still some people around who remember Cyric as a mortal...
Even in the Cyrinishad, Cyric didn't deny that he was originally mortal. So I'd imagine that anyone with more than just a passing knowledge of the gods would know that Cyric was formally a mortal. |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2005 : 23:45:36
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Hi Wooly Rupert,
Yes, truth. But whatever Cyric or anybody has said, it does not always reach people. People back in Sembia, might not make the connection, or even bother about the issue.
Fessel (I took the name of one soldier, that I found in a Shadowdale source book, and made him a very garrulous NPC fellow), for example, might have met Cyric, when Cyric was a mortal and visited Shadowdale. But then, Fessel did not know what would become of Cyric. Later on, when Cyric becomes a god, it is nothing that Fessel reads in the papers ... and when he hears rumors ... he just does not believe them ... or he starts to create his own explication ... Cyric has always been a god ... and all evil gods comes from the south, or the north ... By the way, Cyric beeing the god of lies, cannot be believed at all 
Well, it is a matter of play style, and what message we DMs want to give our players. With my Fessel text ... I just wanted to give my view of what common folk might believe or know. And yes, it is always nice to hear the opinion of others. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 02:51:29
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| What I was getting at is that most likely, his priests and such would freely admit -- and possibly even preach -- that he was a mortal before becoming a deity. So I'd not consider the knowledge to be all that obscure. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 04:14:22
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Additionally, I am sure the worshippers of Cyric take every opportunity to remind other mortals that the deity they praise, while he was a mortal, managed to kill another god during the Time of Troubles.
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 04:24:16
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Hmm... what webmanus is saying is interesting because I've recently just started re-reading the Avatar series. In the novel Waterdeep, it was said that the true reason that ToT started (Bane and Myrkul stealing the Tablets of Fate) was only known to a few. Elminster and Khelben were two of them, and they only found out a portion of the story after spending a lot of time using their magic to investigate and scry.
This alone could tell you how much the general folks of Faerun would know if two of the most powerful figures in the Realms only know so much... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 04:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Hmm... what webmanus is saying is interesting because I've recently just started re-reading the Avatar series. In the novel Waterdeep, it was said that the true reason that ToT started (Bane and Myrkul stealing the Tablets of Fate) was only known to a few. Elminster and Khelben were two of them, and they only found out a portion of the story after spending a lot of time using their magic to investigate and scry.
This alone could tell you how much the general folks of Faerun would know if two of the most powerful figures in the Realms only know so much...
'Tis a good point... And while it certainly applies to the reason for the ToT, it doesn't apply to whether or not people would know Cyric was mortal.
I'm not sure if that's the point you were getting at; if not, I apologize.
But... Most people wouldn't know what a lot of the avatars were doing, though. If they were in the same region where an avatar dropped in, then they might have heard about that avatar if he or she did something noteworthy -- Tymora was in Arabel, but did she really do all that much? Shar, on the other hand, publicly arrived in Waterdeep, impersonated Selūne, and then tried to destroy her in a battle in the streets. Pretty much all Waterdhavians would know about that one, and people up and down the Sword Coast would've heard about it, later.
On the flip side, not many people would know that Shar also slew Ibrandul during the ToT... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 04:43:43
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Certainly, news of the battle between Bane and Torm in Tantras would likely have spread around most of the Moonsea area, as well as to many of the outlying regions -- carried by local sea-going traffic on the Dragon Reach and then across the Inner Sea.
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Edited by - The Sage on 03 May 2005 04:44:39 |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 05:27:25
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Wooly, my reply was basically to the question that webmanus asked: "What do the folk of Faerun know?" My answer was sort of related to the Cyric issue but I actually think that most of the Realms do know of Cyric's past. If you guys all remember, in Prince of Lies Fzoul went up on a large stage infront of the citizens of Zhentil Keep and read The True Life of Cyric. So this is at least one massive city of Faerun that knows the truth and these things do spread fast especially since the people afterwards fled Zhentil Keep when the monsters attacked.
Sage, in Faiths & Pantheons, it was mentioned that the day Torm defeated Bane was considered a holy day in Torm's church. Also, when Bane was dead over 27 different nations had national celebrations on the day the Black Lord died. I suspect that this particular news item would reach everywhere in the Realms, especially since there's such an amazing story for bards to tell. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 05:36:02
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More than likely it will depend on where a given person lives
For example
In Waterdeep people would know that Cyric and Midnight became gods on Mount Waterdeep and then there had been some sort of conflict on the roof of Blackstaff Tower involving the Dead God Mykrul, Most Waterdevian wouldnt know about the murders Cyric commited in Shadowdale or his involvement with Bane
Then theres the different spin being put on the events during the Time of Troubles.
Cyrics church is no doubt still trying to claim that he killed all 4 gods Bane, Bhaal, Mykrul and Leira and has probably embellished the tale in further to "the creater glory of Cyric"
Church of Mystra no doubt reviles Cyric (much like their goddess) and tells a tale of betrayl and murder
Now that the Banes back his church probably has its own spin to, no doubt extoling how Bane cheated death itself and how Cyric is nothing more than a boot licking dog
and thats just from the Churches most involved with the ToT events, No doubt every other church has its own version of events (Remember theres over a 100+ gods in the FR)
A persons view on the events of the ToT will be effected by their Geographical location and which versions theyve been told.
I Imagine Blackstaff and Elminster and a few Sages who are interested in the TIme of Troubles probably know "the whole story" but few others would.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 06:49:09
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Sage, in Faiths & Pantheons, it was mentioned that the day Torm defeated Bane was considered a holy day in Torm's church. Also, when Bane was dead over 27 different nations had national celebrations on the day the Black Lord died. I suspect that this particular news item would reach everywhere in the Realms, especially since there's such an amazing story for bards to tell.
While it would most likely have reached many places in the Realms, those nations and places devoted to the causes of dark gods would likely not celebrate such news. And, at least initially, some realms who followed the faith of the Black Tyrant may simply have worked to prevent such tales from ever reaching the ears of those they held under tyrannical rule in the name of their Black Lord.
Bards wanting to spread wondrous tales of Bane's fall at the hands of Mighty Torm might find themselves turned away at the gates of such locales... or maybe even forced to spend a few nights in the "care" of the local Banite church where they will be "informed" of the error in their stories.
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 07:12:07
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Hi folks!
Think also on how much rumors twist and change, and how confused people might get when they hear a tale and then another. And then, not all gets the news, and then, the right news. And, we have all met people who you explain something, and then you realise that the person in question youst does not understand ... ehem ... including me.
Let's take my Fessel example, a NPC who I have let say a lot to the PCs, he did not believe in the storys of Bane beeing killed, and then some folks start to talk about the god beeing back ... you see ... from his point of view, gods just do not get killed ... How could a god dye, in a world with resurecctions? And, the spreading of Cyrics dogma and story, that is not spread easely in the Dales, I assume. And common folk are more worried about crops and brigands than what a god was or is not.
The events in Zhentil Keep, they could increase common folks knowledge about the ToT. But then, with so many rumors, people could still get confused.
Now, who did build the pyramids? Have we had visitors from outer space? Have you seen Bigfoot? So, in my campaign, canon lore is far from common folks knowledge. And, specially knowledge about the gods and the ToT.
About the celebration of Bane's dead, celebrated in 27 nations ... Blast me, did not see that ... still ... old Fessel was right at the end ... This is what he says:
"The god of the zhents, some say is back. Well, you see, he has always been around us ... it is that we do not understand the dooings of the gods."
/Manuel |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2005 : 19:59:02
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I think of it like this, I am a well educated person living in a metropolitan area, I am well travelled throughout America and abroad. Now, that being said, I know very little about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, very little about Islam, next to nothing about Scientology, I honestly couldn't tell you the difference between a Presbytarian and a Baptist, and the list goes on. I can only imagine that the common folk in Faerun are just as ill informed as I.
Sure, in some circles Cyric's true history may be known, but I can't imagine it being common knowledge. And maybe Cyric's humanity is a bad example, because his church considers his humanity as part of their dogma. The point is, the common folk know only the details that each deity's church propagates, and that assumes that the common folk of Faerun take the time to study each of the gods.
I think that for most of the common people of Faerun, they are content with the knowledge that they should pray to Tymora for Luck, Beshaba to curse their rivals, Waukeen to line their pockets, Sune for matters of love, etc... |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2005 : 09:15:11
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Dru, more known as Druhallen of Sunderath, is a skilled wizard who appears in the Forgotten Realms novel The Nether Scroll. This wizard had some thoughts about the Time of Troubles, thoughts that are presented below. For more details, see page 216.quote:
6 Eleint, in the Year of the Banner (1368 DR),
The Greypeak Mountains
"They'd all heard tales of the recently ended Time of Troubles in which gods had died and -- in some versions of the tales -- mortals had replaced them. The deaths of Bane and Myrkul were all but confirmed. Their priests were impotent and their temples abandoned, but a new Mystra, a fallible, born-mortal Mystra? No, It was inconceivavle; Dru had refused, until now, to conceive of it."
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2005 : 12:41:34
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| Cant we all agree that the results of ToT and the fact that many gods didnt go out of their way to conceil the fact that they where gods have spread the general publics knowledge of ToT. Their conflicts and the fact that their priests could only be granted spells when within a few miles to them tells us that it must have been a public piece of knowledge that the gods walked the realms. Especially Cyric as he wrote a book to spread his legend where he doesnt try to hide the fact that he used to be a mortal... |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2005 : 02:48:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Faramicos
Cant we all agree that the results of ToT and the fact that many gods didnt go out of their way to conceil the fact that they where gods have spread the general publics knowledge of ToT. Their conflicts and the fact that their priests could only be granted spells when within a few miles to them tells us that it must have been a public piece of knowledge that the gods walked the realms. Especially Cyric as he wrote a book to spread his legend where he doesnt try to hide the fact that he used to be a mortal...
True, I do agree with your words, and though Cyric did not deny he was a mortal once, but he wrote it in a slanted fashion that glorified him. |
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In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2005 : 13:54:45
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| Highly glorified... I think we can agree that it was only a petit grain of the truth that made it to the general public through the Cyrinishad. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2005 : 20:38:30
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Hi Faramicos,
Yes, I do also believe that most folks (from peasants to schoolars) of Faerūn do believe that the gods walked Faerūn during the Time of Troubles (ToT). I assume, that it is possible to get a pretty good picture of what common folk, priests, and wizards knows about the events by reading many FR novels and source material. However, in my version of the FR, not everybody knows or understand what really happened during the ToT.
Something that I liked about the novel The Nether Scroll, is the view Druhallen had about the ToT. In addition, I liked the the small bits of information about Faerūn that are written here and there. For example, the part about the Illithid and the Gith in the end. |
Link to my homepage: http://user.tninet.se/~bsu242v/ |
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About Cyric
