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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 15:06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Paec_djinn
The part where it said that the elven retreat was coming to an end, though it could be a wider statement showing the ending of the trilogy.
It has been officially stated that the Retreat is over. So, I don't see how a blurb saying this is deceptive.
Hey Woolsie, not that I doubt you, but where was it stated? I don't believe I've come across that bit of info.
As I recall, the first book more than makes this apparent. With Severil's efforts, we clearly see the "new" elven mindset coming into play in the Realms with regard to the Retreat.
I don't think we could call that a "new elven mindset" based solely on Forsaken House. It may be a new source of devision among the elves, but up to now, it is not an idea that I see as being embraced by elves in general. I agree that this seems to be the direction in which we the series is headed, but I would in no way think that Forsaken House "officially stated that the Retreat is over." |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2005 : 15:31:00
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| Page 14 of the FRCS says the Retreat is over. :) So that was 2 in game years before the events in Rich's novels. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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joshaway
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 02:10:54
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The Last Mythal has become my favorite series also. I lucked out and hastings had a copy yesterday, and I must say that I am tickled with it. My only problem is that I have to wait a whole year before the next part...
Something that struck me as funny though, when the battle between Aeraevin and Saelethil first started, I thought that Aeraevin was going to lose access to all of the high magic spells. I pictured him going back to the mages of Tower Reilloch and explaining his goof. "yeah...about that whole me leaving to study high magic thing..."
I loved the book though, and recommend that you all partake of it as soon as possible |
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 15:30:10
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You know, this series is definitely turning out to be one of my favorites, if not my first choice. If Mr. Baker is checking in here, great novels. Random thoughts: 
I wonder, given the amount of material provided in this book, whether this novel was in formulation before or after the release of certain sourcebooks such as Unapproachable East. I'm glad that the Star Elves are finally addressed in some manner in a novel and serve an actual purpose other than 'Here's another elf race...' It's also nice to see that sun elves are written as being more than just haughty arrogant rascists.  |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2005 : 18:42:57
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| There is one thing Araevin says in the end of the book that keeps nagging me....it sounds as if he is going to destroy Myth Drannors mythal........ |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 12:59:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Ty
I'm glad that the Star Elves are finally addressed in some manner in a novel and serve an actual purpose other than 'Here's another elf race...'
Yes, while I still think the star elves did not need to be added to the Realms, I'm glad some author is finally including them in a novel.
quote:
It's also nice to see that sun elves are written as being more than just haughty arrogant rascists.
Those gold elves showing such traits probably have some other elven sub race blood way back in their ancestry. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2005 : 23:09:21
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So....,
Anyone else finish the 2nd book?
I'm.... kinda disgusted at the amount of destruction going on here. Starting from book 1 we have Evermeet, Evereska, The High Forest, Myth Drannor, Cormanthyr, and The Dales all invaded or taken over. The armies of Evermeet, the Dales, Zhentil Keep, Sembia, and Hillsfar are also attacked, decimated, or forced to retreat......
I want to know how Myth Drannor was taken over so easily!
And for the record: I hate that all the three main races of fiends are allies or working together. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 03 Jul 2005 00:38:18 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 00:35:21
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I have.
I can see it kinda like a symbolizing of Birth. It has traditionally been a bloody and dangerous time in life till the recent times. The elves are fighting a bloody fight from the brink of wasting away. The are emerging from a slumber to a world they no longer know or have control over. Fighting a Fight they have forgotten how to battle.
Distruction and Chaos are hallmarks of Demons and so the spawn of demons. Under a powerful leader, Demon armies can be a force to be reconed with. Sarya has managed to weave a web that has control the forces she has collected. However, you must remember there is a more powerful darker force involved.
I more curious about this alterntive path of High Magic that is being revealed. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:25:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And for the record: I hate that all the three main races of fiends are allies or working together. :)
What?! How was that given any justification?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:29:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Paec_djinn
The part where it said that the elven retreat was coming to an end, though it could be a wider statement showing the ending of the trilogy.
It has been officially stated that the Retreat is over. So, I don't see how a blurb saying this is deceptive.
Hey Woolsie, not that I doubt you, but where was it stated? I don't believe I've come across that bit of info.
As I recall, the first book more than makes this apparent. With Severil's efforts, we clearly see the "new" elven mindset coming into play in the Realms with regard to the Retreat.
I don't think we could call that a "new elven mindset" based solely on Forsaken House. It may be a new source of devision among the elves, but up to now, it is not an idea that I see as being embraced by elves in general. I agree that this seems to be the direction in which we the series is headed, but I would in no way think that Forsaken House "officially stated that the Retreat is over."
I didn't mean to imply that it was the "only" elven mindset -- but rather a "new" mindset being born among the elves which has taken on a different opinion about the Retreat.
Please note where I placed my original emphasis.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:38:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And for the record: I hate that all the three main races of fiends are allies or working together. :)
What?! How was that given any justification?
I haven't seen one that explained it to my satisfaction. Sarya just kept summoning them or the three main fiends just kept following her orders. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 02:57:12
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Got the book yesterday (along with the Best of Eddie) and finished it last night. I found it a bit irritating at first, how the chapters were so short and jumped between too many people/groups.
That aside, I still loved it. I won't post any spoilers, but will say it is worth the money. Oh, how I wish more FR books were in hardback! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 03:02:33
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I would like to mention that it might not be Sarya that are controlling the Fiends perhaps some ARCHevil is controlling them? Perhaps some of the Devils in Myth Dranner have been working under this evil, preparing the way for it's subvertion. Perhaps it links with the Last Mythral mentioned in the Last Chapter of the Book before the Epilogue.
Perhaps Sarya might be the big bad in appearance, while blocking sight from the true big bad. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 03:19:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
And for the record: I hate that all the three main races of fiends are allies or working together. :)
What?! How was that given any justification?
I haven't seen one that explained it to my satisfaction. Sarya just kept summoning them or the three main fiends just kept following her orders.
I would agree. That hardly seem like a worthwhile possibility given what we already know about the relationships betweem the various fiendish races.
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 03:24:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I would like to mention that it might not be Sarya that are controlling the Fiends perhaps some ARCHevil is controlling them? Perhaps some of the Devils in Myth Dranner have been working under this evil, preparing the way for it's subvertion. Perhaps it links with the Last Mythral mentioned in the Last Chapter of the Book before the Epilogue.
That may be but demons, devils, and yugoloth's would not work together. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 03:26:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I would agree. That hardly seem like a worthwhile possibility given what we already know about the relationships betweem the various fiendish races.
Yup. Parts of this novel just bothered me. :) As I said in my 1st post. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 06:46:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I would like to mention that it might not be Sarya that are controlling the Fiends perhaps some ARCHevil is controlling them? Perhaps some of the Devils in Myth Dranner have been working under this evil, preparing the way for it's subvertion. Perhaps it links with the Last Mythral mentioned in the Last Chapter of the Book before the Epilogue.
I've got the book on pre-order from amazon since I enjoyed the first in the series so much. I'll give some more relevant opinion once I've read the material in question, so the following is just based on what others who have read it have told me.
If Sarya is using Tanar'ri and 'loths, or Baatezu and 'loths, it's not a problem. But Tanar'ri and Baatezu -will not- work together. It's probably an issue for any Baatezu to obey a half-Tanar'ri like Sarya, let alone just bend over and fight alongside full blooded ones. It's going to take some serious explanation to rationalize this, and Malkazid alone wouldn't fit that bill. Powerful archfiend or not, he couldn't force CE and LE fiends to work alongside one another, they'd butcher each other the first chance they had.
I can think of one totally applicable justification for it, but I really doubt that they'll be introducing a Baernaloth as an antagonist in the series. But if they did, it'd be the coolest FR book ever.  |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Edited by - Shemmy on 04 Jul 2005 19:35:11 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 08:02:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
I can think of one totally applicable justification for it, but I really doubt that they'll be introducing a Baernaloth as an antagonist in the series. But if they did, it'd be the coolest FR book ever.
That's do-able, but highly unlikely to ever appear as a plot device in an FR novel. Perhaps as a campaign element though, provided a DM wished to deviate slightly from the events as they happened in the novels.
But you're right, it would be something I'd definitely enjoy reading about .
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 14:27:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
Got the book yesterday (along with the Best of Eddie) and finished it last night. I found it a bit irritating at first, how the chapters were so short and jumped between too many people/groups.
That aside, I still loved it. I won't post any spoilers, but will say it is worth the money. Oh, how I wish more FR books were in hardback!
I'm a little under 100 pages from finishing this. But, I can already understand the points you make. Mr. Baker really has gotten numerous groups involved and I don't see how he could have made the story plausible without taking this action. However, it does tend to make the novel a bit convoluted. This novel could do with another 100 or so pages to fully detail all this interaction among various power groups. |
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 21:43:05
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Remember who's behind the Baatezu: The Branded King. And with the lovely choices laid out before the Devils- serve us, or die horribly- I doubt it's that difficult a choice.
And the Tanar'ri answer to Sarya, and Malkizid does for the moment, so... |
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Ty
Learned Scribe
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 23:12:14
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*** SPOILER (potentially) ***
I think that the novel points out the friction between the devils of Myth Drannor and their half-tanari neighbors. However, we also do have Sarya consorting with an archdevil. There is some indication in the novel (although not stated in an explicit manner) as to why the devils are working 'with' the demonfaey; freedom from the wardings of Myth Drannor. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2005 : 23:54:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ty
*** SPOILER (potentially) ***
I think that the novel points out the friction between the devils of Myth Drannor and their half-tanari neighbors. However, we also do have Sarya consorting with an archdevil. There is some indication in the novel (although not stated in an explicit manner) as to why the devils are working 'with' the demonfaey; freedom from the wardings of Myth Drannor.
I don't buy it, sorry. No normal devil would work with tanar'ri spawn and not all of them are devils that were in Myth Drannor, some she summoned.
Even her "patron" couldn't force devils to work with her.
But this is my bias, and no one really can convince me with the little info that we have about why they are working with her and tanar'ri. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 01:15:32
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| Well, the Answer is Obvious. All of the Fiends are Working together because Malkizid has saved them a Bunch of money on Car Insurance. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Shadovar
Senior Scribe
785 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 01:43:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Well, the Answer is Obvious. All of the Fiends are Working together because Malkizid has saved them a Bunch of money on Car Insurance.
That is certainly amusing to me. |
We have fostered trust, recruited loyalty, and gathered the faithful. We have trained thousands. Our legions can cover the land, fill the sky and travel through the darkness. We can hunt any and all that would deny our heritage. Now is our time, now is the time of the Dark Reign(Rain) of the Empire of Shadows.
- High Prince Telemont Tanthul, Lord Shadow
In a speech given to the citizens of Shade Enclave
At the celebration of the Shinantra Battle victory when he revealed that he was THE Lord Shadow of legend. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 02:25:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Ty
*** SPOILER (potentially) ***
I think that the novel points out the friction between the devils of Myth Drannor and their half-tanari neighbors. However, we also do have Sarya consorting with an archdevil. There is some indication in the novel (although not stated in an explicit manner) as to why the devils are working 'with' the demonfaey; freedom from the wardings of Myth Drannor.
I don't buy it, sorry. No normal devil would work with tanar'ri spawn and not all of them are devils that were in Myth Drannor, some she summoned.
Even her "patron" couldn't force devils to work with her.
But this is my bias, and no one really can convince me with the little info that we have about why they are working with her and tanar'ri. :)
And although I haven't read the novel yet, I would have to again agree with Kuje. Everything I've heard so far regarding the connections between demons and devils in the trilogy doesn't exactly square with what has been published time and again about tanar'ri and baatezu relations.
Regardless of how powerful the "patron" is, she cannot wash away the almost genetic drive for demons and devils to dislike each other -- it's a reflection of their differing alignments and the environments they come from. This has been the "fiendish" way fo many millenia, and isn't likely to just up and change through the application of one particular demon- or devil-lord.
If that were the case, the Blood War would have ended centuries ago... Any of the most powerful demonlords or archdevils could have strived to unite both races if it was simply a matter of personal power and charisma.
No, the relationships between demons and devils is a lot more complicated than that...
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Ethriel
Learned Scribe
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 05:02:51
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| I think we're underestimating Malkizid...and the 'instinct of survival' |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 05:40:10
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| I don't buy that, either. The Blood War is pretty much eternal. Practically nobody can make the tanar'ri work with the baatezu. It's less likely to happen than Lolth rejoining the Seldarine, or the elves and drow suddenly coming together to sing "Can't we all just get alooooong." |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 05:57:33
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Is there a Blood War in 3E? More correctly, is there a Blood War in the new cosmology of the Realms? I haven't even looked at my sources, so the answer is likely "yes", but if it isn't then maybe all Lower Planes creatures just want to get onto the Prime so that they can (to quote "Lost in Space") 'crush, kill, destroy'.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2005 : 09:03:19
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Is there a Blood War in 3E? More correctly, is there a Blood War in the new cosmology of the Realms? I haven't even looked at my sources, so the answer is likely "yes", but if it isn't then maybe all Lower Planes creatures just want to get onto the Prime so that they can (to quote "Lost in Space") 'crush, kill, destroy'.
-- George Krashos
Yes, the Blood War is mentioned in 3e FR -- in the PGtF. It's referenced in the planar description sections for the Abyss, the Barrens of Doom and Despair, the Blood Rift, Clangor, and the Nine Hells.
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Edited by - The Sage on 04 Jul 2005 09:06:18 |
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Farthest Reach (The Last Mythal Book II) Spoilers
