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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:15:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not entirely sure you can.
I remember this coming up at the last census. I'll check the census website to be certain though...
Surely an atheist should at least be allowed to write "None" then. I would hope the Austrailian government knows, and acknowledges, that not every person has religious beliefs. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:17:38
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quote:
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
And to belief in something without proof is having faith in it. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Actually the Religion question is probably the only one I can safely screw around with after all if I write "Banite" how are they going to know that I dont believe in it? They could prove that I lied about my income by cross referencing with the Australian Tax Office but how are they going to prove that Im not a "Banite" 
Census Collection person: Sir we dont believe what youve written on your census form is accurate you need to prove that your follower of this "Church of Bane" or face a 1000 dollar fine
Me: Fair enough, you just lie down on this table and Ill go and get the sacrificial dagger.....
 Honestly, I think if you put down something like "Banite", odds are you would just get filed into "Other" or some catch-all miscellaneous category. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Aug 2006 03:18:04 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:18:05
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| Since we have a church tax...another relic I think of the "we-bribe-the-churches-so-we-can-kill-more" days... it is actually worth leaving church... not that I have to do that...never been there never done that |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:22:43
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There's religious attitudes and practices, and then there's organizations which claim to be religious. The politically powerful ones get called 'religions', the others are 'cults', etc. In religions that work, i.e. facilitate contact with the divine, there's no need for the modern concept of faith in the 'believe what the priests say' sense, which is 'religion' as mechanism of social control.
Most of the beliefs and practices of the Jedi are straight from any number of our-world traditions (and what Aldous Huxley called the perennial philosophy). On the other hand, the Force doesn't work in our galaxy as it does in theirs, and we don't have any Jedi Masters to learn from. I have too much respect for the Jedi to pretend to be one.
Wow, Rinonalyrna -- these terms get used in different senses, but deism as I understand it holds that God made the cosmos and then abandoned it. Grim!
Extreme football fans devote love, time and reverence to their teams, which is worship by any practical definition. 'Hero worship', similarly, is not a figure of speech; part of Western culture is the worship of celebrities. |
Edited by - Faraer on 07 Aug 2006 03:23:32 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:25:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not entirely sure you can.
I remember this coming up at the last census. I'll check the census website to be certain though...
Surely an atheist should at least be allowed to write "None" then. I would hope the Austrailian government knows, and acknowledges, that not every person has religious beliefs.
I don't think the actual problem was with a person's own religious beliefs or not... but rather, using the word "Atheist."
They'd rather "no religious denomination" as I recall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:29:08
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quote:
Extreme football fans devote love, time and reverence to their teams, which is worship by any practical definition. 'Hero worship', similarly, is not a figure of speech; part of Western culture is the worship of celebrities.
Classical culture probably helped influence us in this.
They loved their hero-cults! |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 04:00:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Wow, Rinonalyrna -- these terms get used in different senses, but deism as I understand it holds that God made the cosmos and then abandoned it. Grim!
It could be...but it need not be grim if one feels that humans are pretty well-equipped to be problem solvers (in addition to being problem creators) already--indeed, that's a stance that many deists take.  We were born with brains, after all. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Aug 2006 04:02:09 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 04:01:38
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
quote:
Extreme football fans devote love, time and reverence to their teams, which is worship by any practical definition. 'Hero worship', similarly, is not a figure of speech; part of Western culture is the worship of celebrities.
Classical culture probably helped influence us in this.
They loved their hero-cults!
I think it can be chalked up (at least partly) to human nature. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 04:48:22
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| i can see jedi being a religion because it reminds me of hinduism in a way...and it kinda looks like george had that and some other religions in mind when he developed "the force" and the jedi stuff |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 05:03:07
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| A fantasy religion influenced by real world religion(s) does not equal a real religion, at least not in the eyes of any government I know of. In order for a religion to be "on the books", there needs to be demonstrable proof that there is some organization to it, and that people sincerely practice the religion's beliefs. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Aug 2006 05:03:28 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 05:23:34
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Having read the Mahabharata.. I can say it's not very much like Hinduism at all.
Hinduism revolves primarily around the belief that all of life is a grand illusion that will be destroyed by Shiva; and that Krishna is the greatest of all mysteries, the sum of all of the universe; and that the cycle of reincarnation spins on endlessly.
Not much about the Jedi in that. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 05:24:32
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| im not saying it is real but i mean im saying i can see some wackjobs making it into a real religion just because it poseses similar aspects to other religions and would be somewhat believable if you filled in all the holes |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 05:38:14
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| you enjoy mocking and counterattacking all that i say dont you? no i meant in the ways with the when you die you become part of a larger unseen force and thats the same thing jedi beleive...unless its not hinduism and im thinking of something else? |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 05:43:21
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| and i just see bits on pieces in the whole forece jedi thing that look like the connect back to religions such as but not neccisarily hinduism... |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 05:50:00
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quote:
you enjoy mocking and counterattacking all that i say dont you?
No moreso than I do anyone else who I find faults in the arguments of. :) Nothing personal.
quote:
no i meant in the ways with the when you die you become part of a larger unseen force and thats the same thing jedi beleive...unless its not hinduism and im thinking of something else?
That's really not Hinduism. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 05:56:46
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| i could of swore that was hinduism....anyways its awesome you know so much it....i dont know alot yet but hey im only 16...who knew?...but i mean i would love to learn more about religions and stuff i find it rather interesting...and i mean like hinduism...and confusicism...taoist...buddism....stuff like that...anyways you win...im just saying in general the jedi ways and the force seem at least slightly like the religions we have around today |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 13:25:38
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They are, since George Lucas included in Star Wars a distillation (in broad, fictional, cinematic terms) of Earthly religions, in particular a reverence for the underlying, infinite whole rather than the apparent superficial parts.
But until we know more about how the Jedi train and meditate, in our galaxy their way is not an effective path to spiritual enlightenment or transhuman abilities. Try one or some of the religions that inspired them. |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 13:27:13
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| Moanderite. Gargauthan. Tiamatan. Setite. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 13:31:28
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quote:
i could of swore that was hinduism....anyways its awesome you know so much it....i dont know alot yet but hey im only 16...who knew?...but i mean i would love to learn more about religions and stuff i find it rather interesting...and i mean like hinduism...and confusicism...taoist...buddism....stuff like that...anyways you win...im just saying in general the jedi ways and the force seem at least slightly like the religions we have around today
I'm personally more a Classical culture (Greek, Roman, and to a lesser extent, Etruscan) and Teutonic nut. Being as Indo-European culture is so rooted in Vedic archetypes, I also research a bit of that, too. I passed up on the Celtic stuff in depth because it seemed way too popular. ;) Looking also into more ancient Middle Eastern religions and Eastern European.
But I started at, like, 10, so. *Cough*
Anyway, I'm sure some on these boards (Kuje, Faraer) certainly know more about certain religions than I do. It's just more of a hobby of mine.
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Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 15:00:40
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| The only Faith I like is the chick in Buffy the Vampire Slayer :D |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 15:03:53
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Wow! Dargoth, it looks like some people are taking this pretty serious. I applaud every one's remarks as it is always a joy to speak ones mind and be heard.  I still would say Jedi for your religion Dargoth.  |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 15:05:03
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| Gellar or Hannigan? |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 15:05:34
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Faith was much cooler than Buffy.
*Be's gay.* |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 15:08:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
The only Faith I like is the chick in Buffy the Vampire Slayer :D
There's always Merciful Faith
It seems like the Jedi's are winning this? |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 15:15:19
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Yeap!
And I vote for the Jedi, too.
Chosen of Moradin, the dwarf with the lightsaber. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Wandering_mage
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 17:16:09
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Wandering Mage, the elf with the lightsaber. :)
But honestly, if I were ever a resident in Faerun I would be a Mystra, Talos, Azuth, Corellon, Meliekki worshipper. Oh, and Chauntea too! I likes to eat! hahaha |
Illum
The Wandering Mage |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 17:23:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Genis
i could of swore that was hinduism....anyways its awesome you know so much it....i dont know alot yet but hey im only 16...who knew?...but i mean i would love to learn more about religions and stuff i find it rather interesting...and i mean like hinduism...and confusicism...taoist...buddism....stuff like that...anyways you win...im just saying in general the jedi ways and the force seem at least slightly like the religions we have around today
Actually the Jedi religion is based on the Chinese religion Taoism, but there are major differences.
If you want to really stand out, start a demon-worshipping cult Green Rhonin's Book of Fiends can give you some inspiration on that.
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"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Edited by - FridayThe13th on 07 Aug 2006 17:25:31 |
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Torkael
Acolyte
39 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 17:28:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
In order for a religion to be "on the books", there needs to be demonstrable proof that there is some organization to it, and that people sincerely practice the religion's beliefs.
So technically, if a number of people believe in a faith that's supposedly fictional and can prove they actually practice it's teachings, they are officially seen by the goverment as believers of that faith? |
"No, I will not create a song dedicated to dancing dwarves. Especially dwarves worshipping Eilistraee." - Tenasa the bard |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 17:46:28
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| yeah gothicdan i really like the greek and roman stuff too....and i mean i started earlier then now....not at 10 but i mean i know more then most of the people i know despite that not being much because i live in uncultured and unlearned northern minnesota redneckville...sigh |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Topic |
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Help an Australian choose a religion by Tuesday
