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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 01:46:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
It's not just the writing style. It's the fact that Paolini ripped off a number of other, better fantasy and squashed it all together in one big, nauseating cliche fest. And strangely enough, even children's literature can be imaginative and refreshing; the "Young Adult" or "children's fiction" label neither necessitates nor excuses tripe. Ever read Pratchett's children's books? Roald Dahl? Michael Ende? Hell, CS Lewis? Compared to those, Eragon is dirt.
Also, for a book that many hold up as "children's fiction" (as a way of telling people not to be so harsh on it), it contains elements in it that are inappropriate for children, such as an infant's body impaled on a pike amidst a pile of bodies in the first book (as an adult, I found that to be an unsubtle, manipulative attempt to tug at my heartstrings, btw) and explicitly naked elves in the second book. I hear the second book gets pretty preachy, too!
I agree with everything Winterfox said about the numerous, barefaced cliches found in Eragon, as well as the ridiculous prose that tries to be more "beautiful" than it really is (the elven girl, for instance, is in prison looking gorgeous, and she sheds the proverbial single tear that looks like "a liquid diamond" ).
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 01:53:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Zorro
As far as an "intentionally childish style of writing" is concerned, my guess would be that it's due to Paolini's age (15 IIRC) when he wrote his tripe. (Mind you, I wrote horrible tripe too, when I was his age. I just didn't happen to get published. Thank God, by the way.)
Paolini STARTED writing the book at age 15. He didn't finish it until four years later.
So, his age is a red herring. He's in his 20s now, and has his prose improved that much? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 03:00:26
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| i agree completly this has gone from discussing possible fantays movies or movies they should make to making fun of some dude who wrote a bad book |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 03:05:31
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Ok...
Regarding a Drizzt movie, a possible controversy could be a bad thing, or it might *not* hurt the movie. Look what happened with The Passion of the Christ and The DaVinci Code. Also, there are some in the industry that feel any publicity is good publicity.
As I've said before, I'm not pushing for a Drizzt movie, but I think that from a "bottom line" standpoint, an FR movie based on Drizzt would have the best *chance* of being a financial success. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 03:37:11
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| thats what i wanted to hear! goooooo rino! |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 03:59:52
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*grins* Just giving my opinion.  If a Drizzt movie came out, I'd have to see it out of simple curiosity, and because in the end it's still FR. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 04:01:27
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| thats the spirit....thats the motha truckin spirit! |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 04:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Paolini STARTED writing the book at age 15. He didn't finish it until four years later.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the info
Back to topic: In my opinion, the greatest problem for a possible FR movie would be that there is no binding story. So whoever gets assigned to write a script has no story to adapt, just a place in which a story is supposed to happen. It wasn't Middle-Earth that was turned into a movie, it was the LotR. It isn't Krynn that gets a film treatment, it's the story of Tanis & co. So a studio commissions one of its numerous writers (mostly devoid of any hint of talent) to read up on the place, fudge a generic story that won't overtax the kiddies it's supposed to be aimed at, and change whatever he likes along the way. Naturally, fans aren't fond of changes, but they might excuse them if the adaptation of the story is reasonably faithful - but there is none to begin with. All right, let's say said writer comes up with a dumb story revolving around the classic fantasy staples. Now he has to force it into the Realms, whatever the cost. This group gets axed, that town gets relocated, the local history gets rewritten to suit the demands of the story - but as long as "Forgotten Realms" is in the title and someone mentions Elminster's name, it's still FR, right? Right... (By the way, isn't it absolutely hilarious to make the most terrible fantasy flick of the last 30 years and call it D&D, although D&D is just a rules system with no inherent story? Well, anything for the money.)
Frankly, I don't know a half-decent FR novel - none of those I know doesn't suck big time. So of course I wouldn't want a movie to be based on those. There are a few interesting concepts, though, hidden within the novels, but to turn them into a great picture instead of going the easy way of turning an existing novel into a script - thereby dumbing something down that needs no further dumbing down to begin with - requires a good scriptwright with an IQ over 80 who's a fervent FR devotee to boot as well as a studio that actually gives a carp. Both are exceedingly rare, the combination of these accordingly rarer. Conclusion: The last thing the FR need is a movie. There's just no way the result would turn out to be even tolerable.
Zorro
Mod edit: Let's be a bit more careful with the language, shall we? |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Aug 2006 05:45:19 |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 04:23:42
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| you may be right....the possibilities of a good movie is slim because the directors and stuff wont be FR fans and would almost have to be for it to be good...and whatnot..yeah your right but if they pulled off a good FR movie wouldnt that be like the coolest thing in the world? lol |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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Zorro
Seeker
Germany
82 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 19:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Mod edit: Let's be a bit more careful with the language, shall we?
My apologies. Because English isn't my first language, I had a hard time coming up with a more harmless version. Off the top of my head, I had the choice between a rat's behind, a sexual analogy and what I deemed comparatively harmless and therefore eventually wrote. Had no idea that even that was too harsh. So I'm sorry, won't happen again 
Zorro |
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability. - Oscar Wilde |
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TheRedBard
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 01:26:30
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| hey Rino, I have to disagree. SOME controversy can help, It all depends on who may take offence, and who wont. You have to consider the political atmosphere in the US right now. "Passion" didnt cause too much controversy overall, and Da Vinci code only offended Catholics, and most dont fear offending we Catholics on a whole because we tend not to protest and such. A Drizzt movie though, you would be asking for trouble. Hell I remember tons of controversy when "The Lion King" came out as the "evil lion" was slightly darker than the other "good lions". Things tend to be even more censored now 8 years later. I hate the fact that free speech is almost a lie, but I remember large protests over something that small. Wizards would be gambling on the movie already just because a RAS adaptation would be so different from what else is out there. So I think it will never happen, not any Drow at least, unless they changed the story completely, and no one wants that right? |
"You're only given a little spark of madness. And if you lose that, you're nothing!"
-Robin Williams, 1978 HBO Special |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 01:36:31
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quote:
Originally posted by TheRedBard
hey Rino, I have to disagree. SOME controversy can help, It all depends on who may take offence, and who wont. You have to consider the political atmosphere in the US right now. "Passion" didnt cause too much controversy overall, and Da Vinci code only offended Catholics, and most dont fear offending we Catholics on a whole because we tend not to protest and such.
Actually, a lot of Christians in general disliked the movie (not just Catholics), because they saw the DaVinci Code as sign of how Hollywood (and the media in general, and "culture" in general) considers Christianity fair game to be attacked, ridiculed, and dismissed.
Yet in spite of protests (of all different kinds, not just "picketing"), boycotts, and even bad reviews, the movie did extraordinarily well.
quote:
A Drizzt movie though, you would be asking for trouble. Hell I remember tons of controversy when "The Lion King" came out as the "evil lion" was slightly darker than the other "good lions".
Yet The Lion King didn't exactly fail at the box office either.
Anyway, I'm no prognosticator, and a movie (controversial or not) can do well or fail for any number of reasons. But in my experience, controversial subject matter is not, in itself, a death knell for a movie. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 03:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by TheRedBard
hey Rino, I have to disagree. SOME controversy can help, It all depends on who may take offence, and who wont. You have to consider the political atmosphere in the US right now. "Passion" didnt cause too much controversy overall, and Da Vinci code only offended Catholics, and most dont fear offending we Catholics on a whole because we tend not to protest and such.
Actually, a lot of Christians in general disliked the movie (not just Catholics), because they saw the DaVinci Code as sign of how Hollywood (and the media in general, and "culture" in general) considers Christianity fair game to be attacked, ridiculed, and dismissed.
Yet in spite of protests (of all different kinds, not just "picketing"), boycotts, and even bad reviews, the movie did extraordinarily well.
quote:
A Drizzt movie though, you would be asking for trouble. Hell I remember tons of controversy when "The Lion King" came out as the "evil lion" was slightly darker than the other "good lions".
Yet The Lion King didn't exactly fail at the box office either.
Anyway, I'm no prognosticator, and a movie (controversial or not) can do well or fail for any number of reasons. But in my experience, controversial subject matter is not, in itself, a death knell for a movie.
Yes, the Da Vinci Code was quite conterversial, and this topic should be approached with caution. Still, what you have to realize is that is is just fiction, and should not really be taken seriously.
As for you saying that all "christians" were offended by Da Vinci Code, book and movie, not all were. I am a Christian(abiet not a very traditional one) and I wasen't offended one bit by the book or the movie, I loved them. This is mostly because I have a more open-minded view on things and am not offended easily. Most normal christians, although I cannot say they liked it, were not greatly offended by Da Vinci Code or Passion or anything like that.
What you have got to remember is that every time conterversy breaks out(like with D&D in the 80s), it is always caused by a small but vocal group of bible-thumping fundementalists(mostly evangelicals, but in Da Vinci Code case, Catholics) that are so outspoken that they eventually make it a big problem. If only SOME people would stop being so radical about fiction and roll around in religious hystarics when anything just somewhat different comes out, this woudn't be such a big problem.
Now mind you that a movie on Drow should be taken cautiously, religion and racism are still different. But if only people thought with more reason and practicality at certain things and not react to anything that just hints tinily at deflections and literlly cause trouble on purpose, maybe more problems can actually be avoided.
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"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Edited by - FridayThe13th on 09 Aug 2006 03:01:12 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 03:38:23
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quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
Yes, the Da Vinci Code was quite conterversial, and this topic should be approached with caution. Still, what you have to realize is that is is just fiction, and should not really be taken seriously.
*grits teeth*
Okay, where did I say *I* was offended, or that I think the DaVinci Code is non-fiction? Or that I think all Christians felt the same way?
I was simply trying to make a point! I NEVER mentioned my personal feelings on the matter. Try not to lose sight of my main argument, here. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 09 Aug 2006 03:39:04 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 03:40:55
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quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
As for you saying that all "christians" were offended by Da Vinci Code, book and movie, not all were.
Once again, I DID NOT say "all christians". Please read carefully before quoting people, because I hate being misquoted with burning passion. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 03:55:34
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Last warning. Let's watch ourselves, here, because I will lock this thread if I feel I must.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 03:59:07
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Sorry, I didn't mean to make drama, but being misquoted/misrepresented really pushes my buttons.
No one is perfect, but let's all watch what we say, all right? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 04:05:01
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Aside:
The Da Vinci Code contains a lot of (derivative) historical and theological nonsense, if judged as fact.
On the other hand, the point about the crushing of overt feminine spirituality in Christianity is incontravertible, and some of what it suggests about Mary Magdalene is likely.
The Catholic Church's defensive 'it's all nonsense' response is foolish and counterproductive.
For anyone who's interested, of all the stuff written on this, I'm fairly convinced Robert M. Price's The Da Vinci Fraud is likely to be historically (but not necessarily spiritually) accurate. Here's a summary of the book. |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 04:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Sorry, I didn't mean to make drama, but being misquoted/misrepresented really pushes my buttons.
No one is perfect, but let's all watch what we say, all right?
Sorry I misrepresented you Rino. If it makes you feel any better, the entire thing I posted was NOT directed at you. The quote might have made it seem that way, but I assure you I was just trying to sum up my points, not pointing any fingers.
My point is that sometimes religious/conservative fanatics make things bigger than they actually are. period. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:11:14
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I'm not sure if it's fair to say that "they made something bigger than it really is."
Isn't EVERYTHING only as big as an individual or group of people wants it to be? |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:21:02
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quote:
Originally posted by FridayThe13th
Sorry I misrepresented you Rino. If it makes you feel any better, the entire thing I posted was NOT directed at you. The quote might have made it seem that way, but I assure you I was just trying to sum up my points, not pointing any fingers.
Well, you did say "you", but I'll let it go. Apology accepted. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:22:07
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Isn't EVERYTHING only as big as an individual or group of people wants it to be?
Good point.
And that's why a Drizzt movie has the potential to be REALLY big. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:27:24
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Well, you can tell from my posts that I tend to lean towards the liberal side, and have a healthy dislike of fundementalists.
And no, things aren't as big as people make them, because people all have different perspectives. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:30:01
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quote:
And no, things aren't as big as people make them, because people all have different perspectives.
How can you make an objective statement about something that you say is subjective? |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:31:50
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
quote:
And no, things aren't as big as people make them, because people all have different perspectives.
How can you make an objective statement about something that you say is subjective?
If things are as large as people make them, then are you saying that the Inquistion never existed? They tended to spring conterversies out of thin air
And please talk in english. |
"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Edited by - FridayThe13th on 09 Aug 2006 05:32:13 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:39:50
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quote:
If things are as large as people make them, then are you saying that the Inquistion never existed? They tended to spring conterversies out of thin air
Uh. Controversies ONLY arise from people. So of COURSE controversy would seem to spring out of thin air; thoughts do not have to obey the laws of thermodynamics.
Anyway, this is getting a bit OT.. So I'll clip this rose's thorn right here. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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FridayThe13th
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 05:42:25
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
quote:
If things are as large as people make them, then are you saying that the Inquistion never existed? They tended to spring conterversies out of thin air
Uh. Controversies ONLY arise from people. So of COURSE controversy would seem to spring out of thin air; thoughts do not have to obey the laws of thermodynamics.
Anyway, this is getting a bit OT.. So I'll clip this rose's thorn right here. :)
Still, I would assume that reasonable-minded people would try to avoid conterversy, not start it. But it is not my place to question the motives of others, no matter how questionable they may be... so lets just stop it now.
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"The Lady of Pain? You mean Loviatar runs this place?"
-- Torilian Prime
"You guys should seriously rename yourselves The Horny Society, you popularity would soar."
-- A miscillaneous Kender to a member of the Horned Society
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 06:24:42
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| i agree with fridaythe13th on that most contraversy and whatnot starts from small....not like super small but a minority group of extremly outspoken people who think they know whats best for everybody...for example democrats ;) |
Unofficial Random Hiatus Taker. |
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A Good Fantasy Movie is All I Ask For!
Topic Locked
