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Feiht
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 06:07:41
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In the Starlight and Shadows trilogy, Liriel states at one point that Drow do not dream. But then in the War of the SPider Queen, there are a few places in which at least Halisstra has dreams. So do drow dream, or is this unique to Halisstra due to her circumstances throughout the series?
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 06:40:39
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Some drow, those born after 1300 DR are more likely to sleep and experience dreams. Most drow experience the Reverie, but no actual dreaming occurs. The drow who do dream are either younger than most, or have acquired the trait from someone else. Suprisingly, (since I am the unofficial "Drow Loremaster" here at Candlekeep) I have little more knowledge regarding this topic, I am ashamed to say........ |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 11:09:17
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| Uhm, in that case, from where did these "younger" drow acquire the ability to dream...? Another 3E mess-up? |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
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Ashlock
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 15:08:09
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I can't quote anything right now, but...
As far as I remember, elves from 2nd edition back slept, at least they did sometimes. I think it was sourcebook and novel inconsitencies.
In 3rd edition, they trance. From the 2nd edition book The Complete Book of Elves and in later FR products, this was called Reverie. It's a meditative state, not actual sleep. And they do not dream in the usual sense. Instead, they sort of replay memories. This is tied into their longevity...and how they can retain their memories over so great a time, because they're constantly getting 'refreshes' during Reverie. |
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 16:44:30
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| Hmm... most elves have the reverie... unless severely injured, then they sleep... i recall reading that somewhere... but i also recall reading that due to the separation of drow and elves... drow for some reason weren't supposed to be able to enter reverie, even good ones... i thought i read that in one of the novels somewhere.. |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 16:52:14
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Actually though, in WotSQ: Insurrection Quenthel blatantly states, "I would like to enjoy the Reverie on a couch for once, wizard." |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 05:53:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Zacas
Hmm... most elves have the reverie... unless severely injured, then they sleep... i recall reading that somewhere... but i also recall reading that due to the separation of drow and elves... drow for some reason weren't supposed to be able to enter reverie, even good ones... i thought i read that in one of the novels somewhere..
I want to say you read the "unless severly injured" part in Complete Book of Elves. My copy is with one of my players right now so I can't look it up. However, I also recall reading it someplace so we both can't be wrong.
I also thought drow slept rather than entered reverie. I don't recall ever reading anything about drow entering reverie until 3e came around. If anyone has a resource stating different, please provide it. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 18:48:13
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Do Drow Dream of Underdark Sheep?
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Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Ezindir the dark
Senior Scribe
Norway
603 Posts |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 22:02:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Do Drow Dream of Underdark Sheep?
That would be Rothe, Bookwyrm. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 03:44:57
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No, there's an old book called Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?. I was just spoofing, that's all. 
By the way, in The Crystal Shard, Drizzt entered reverie -- though he refered to it as a trance that elves just called sleep. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 16:31:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
No, there's an old book called Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?. I was just spoofing, that's all.
One of the best cyberpunk novels at that. Don't worry, your reference didn't go unnoticed. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 16:51:18
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I gave this question a considerable amount of thought when I started writing Daughter of the Drow. Despite research and inquiries, I did not find a single, definitive answer, so I had to find an explanation that made sense to me.
It seemed logical to me that dreams--the flotsom of the subconscious--would not provide any sort of restoration to the ever-scheming drow. It seemed likely that any Underdark drow who did experience dreams would probably be driven mad by them. I postulated that natural adaption would result in other solutions, but also assumed that their elven natures, including the ability to enter reverie, were fragmented by their environment. So I left the issue unresolved, describing various drow in different situations. Some drow slept, some entered a form of Reverie, and some, such as Gromph, could not sleep at all. (It also occurred to me that the drow would likely have developed some sort of brief but deeply restorative meditation -- a very useful skill for warriors, priestesses and wizards who, for whatever reason, cannot afford to take their eyes off their enemies for long.)
This reasoning is not part of canon lore -- it's just the thought processes behind my handling of the matter in the Starlight & Shadows trilogy.
I don't know whether or not 3.5 addresses this issue or offers a definitive answer, but there are references in the earlier lore to support these possible options: dreamless sleep, sleep with a dream phase, elven reverie.
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Enagonios
Acolyte
Philippines
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 05:43:34
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| on a slightly more different note, citing the same 2 references, can drow cry or not? bec in tangled webs liriel cant shed any tears but in insurrection haalistra(sp?) can |
"I can't die young. I have a feeling the people of earth are gonna need me." -Marco from Road Trip |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 06:23:34
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Actually, perhaps we can shed some light on this... or at least give plausible reasons and excuses. Now we are aware that those drow who can enter reverie are dwindling. (We cannot rememeber where we heard this). Anyways, we liken this to the dwindling number of dwarves. Excepting perhaps the Duergar, the dwarven race has started to turn about and replenish their numbers (thanks to the Thunder blessing). We think that reverie is something along these lines. In effect, Drow seem to becoming more.... mortal (For lack of a better term, and it would be blasphemy to Lolth to say the Drow are becoming more human ). Drow begining to weep, begining to dream... It may be that Lolth may be trying to take a more of a hand in drow development as a species... or it is that the drow are finally begining to feel a fall out from living in the underdark with Faerzress or perhaps the generations are changing with the lack of the light or Corellon Larethian.
Whatever the true cause, we shall sum up what we are saying.
For virtue or vice, the Drow are evolving.... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 14:37:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Enagonios
on a slightly more different note, citing the same 2 references, can drow cry or not? bec in tangled webs liriel cant shed any tears but in insurrection haalistra(sp?) can
The novel doesn't state that Liriel can't cry, merely that she hasn't since the death of her mother. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 15:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Now we are aware that those drow who can enter reverie are dwindling. (We cannot rememeber where we heard this).
Please let the board know if you do recall where you read this piece of information. |
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Zelg of Cyric
Acolyte
44 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 11:13:14
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| I would think that if a dream or a vision of somekind was divinely given that any drow could dream it. Maybe there are some examples out there? I can't remember any right off the top of my head. |
"Even before he first walked the world as a mortal, Cyric had the will to resist the random call of Fate and make his own fortune. As his newborn soul stood before the goddesses, he cast a light upon Tymora's silver coin, blinding them to his presence. The deities never saw the coin fall, never settled their wager on Cyric's destiny. Thus was he born into the world without any fate save the one he himself could forge." -- from the Cyrinishad |
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Zelg of Cyric
Acolyte
44 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 11:18:26
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| I mean, the drow have used sleep-poisoned darts, for generations. Am I to believe that when the poison knocks them out they aren't asleep but in a meditative state? maybe they don't sleep or dream naturally but I bet even ancient drow have slept or dreamt at one point with some kind of assistance. |
"Even before he first walked the world as a mortal, Cyric had the will to resist the random call of Fate and make his own fortune. As his newborn soul stood before the goddesses, he cast a light upon Tymora's silver coin, blinding them to his presence. The deities never saw the coin fall, never settled their wager on Cyric's destiny. Thus was he born into the world without any fate save the one he himself could forge." -- from the Cyrinishad |
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Do Drow dream?
