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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 17:11:56
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What would be a good way, and suggestions, for me to create my deities?
I'm asking because I can name them for their races, be it human or whatever, but when it starts to the creation of the deities, I start getting stuck. It's not like I don't have a decent idea on what I would like to do with the deity, but I'm just having a difficult time on the organizing the deity.
Anyone have any tips of suggestions on how to organize them when it comes to details and information for them?
*Note: I couldn't find anywhere else here at Candlekeep Forums to post this thing. I know it isn't Realms, but I did not notice a General Non-Realms Section. So if this gets moved, or locked, I understand, given I did read each one very carefully...
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"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 17:30:10
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Not sure why you want more, but be that is it is.
You of course can look at existing gieties in the game and myths.
If you want an entirely different system, I would follow the types of models used by Greeks and others. A major diety has a vast area of control, death, nature, fertility depending on how wide you define these they are the basics of a life cycle.
death has divions that can be held by lessor powwers. The gate keeper, the one(s) that collect souls, the manager of the after life.
nature, includes weather, sun, and so on.
fertility includes lust, childbirth, marriage, corps and so on.
Some of the forces or sub powers will be for good others to balance. Death for example might have one diety for assassians, another for deception, and so on.
You can use a family model, where there are parents holding the greater powers, and their children nolding the lessor aspects.
For different races you can use the above type of model for them, but perhaps it would be better to have cousins that seek worship from other races that have asspects of the greater powers that the races most use/need.
You also of course could take the greatest diety out of the picture like how AO is almost never seen.
You really should define what powers you want them to have and you should want a balance of forces. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 20:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
What would be a good way, and suggestions, for me to create my deities?
I'm asking because I can name them for their races, be it human or whatever, but when it starts to the creation of the deities, I start getting stuck. It's not like I don't have a decent idea on what I would like to do with the deity, but I'm just having a difficult time on the organizing the deity.
Anyone have any tips of suggestions on how to organize them when it comes to details and information for them?
*Note: I couldn't find anywhere else here at Candlekeep Forums to post this thing. I know it isn't Realms, but I did not notice a General Non-Realms Section. So if this gets moved, or locked, I understand, given I did read each one very carefully...
The book Deities & Demigods has suggestions on creating gods and pantheons. As for non-Realms, Candlekeep has a daughter site for such things: Worlds of D&D. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 21:32:01
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I did not know there was a daughter site of Candlekeep :)
I don't want anymore deities in Realms. This is for my own creation and world a not Realms. How many other deities can be created though in Realms? Seriously like every type of thing imaginable is taken! |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 21:39:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
How many other deities can be created though in Realms? Seriously like every type of thing imaginable is taken!
There is always room for more *wink*/ Portfiles can be shared, there can be children, not counting moratals achiving duety status. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 22:45:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
I did not know there was a daughter site of Candlekeep :)
I don't want anymore deities in Realms. This is for my own creation and world a not Realms. How many other deities can be created though in Realms? Seriously like every type of thing imaginable is taken!
Finder's Bane, page 229, a comment from the illithid deity Ilsensine, speaking of Finder:
Now we recall. The slayer of Moander. A demi-power worshipped only in Abeir-Toril. There are so many gods worshipped in that world it's hard to keep track of them all. We wouldn't be surprised to find they have a god there with dominion over the tableware and ale mugs. |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 23:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
How many other deities can be created though in Realms? Seriously like every type of thing imaginable is taken!
Oddly, the Realms would seem to lack a god of kingship. And what of glory, or does Lathander have glory covered? Kinship? |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2004 : 23:49:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
How many other deities can be created though in Realms? Seriously like every type of thing imaginable is taken!
Oddly, the Realms would seem to lack a god of kingship. And what of glory, or does Lathander have glory covered? Kinship?
The first is Siamorphe. And yes, Lathander has glory.
Look at Deities and Demigods, and the 2e Complete Priest's Handbook for deity/creation details. Complete Divine, the Manual of the Planes, the Book of Vile Darkness, and the Book of Exalted Deeds may be additionally helpful. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 02:25:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
The first is Siamorphe. And yes, Lathander has glory.
But which has dominion over the tableware and ale mugs? ;-) |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 04:17:54
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Tableware is probably an obscure halfling god who's about as round as he is tall. Ale mugs . . . well that could be any dwarven power!  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 12:15:14
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whatever you do
don't create a superpower god!!!
if you do name him Alparon
but believe me creating your own deities takes ages and when people dont like them you'll be dissapointed
and I hate Greyhawk deities
one is Vecna
you know the lich in Forgotten realms |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 16:37:48
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Don't be mislead into thinking you have to create your dieties as presented in Dieties and Demigods or other books. Vary rarely will you need stats for Dieties and mine are easy all slots are filled with " you'll never win"
All you need is a portfolio a domain a good history and maybe a bit of dogma. Divine abilities and other things are just busy work that accomplishes nothing.
AS far as FR goes yes there are alot of gods but remember this is a place where one person will venerate 3-5 gods a day. If you wanted to mix it up some you could combine some lesser powers with related portfolio's. This is something I have done before but only with a handful of gods. ( I folded some dieties into Auril to make here a greater goddess)
Just some tips though. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 17:44:36
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I'm not trying to make any FR Deities. I'm trying to make my own Deities for my own worlds. I'm trying to get General Tips and Suggestions.
Most of these replies seems to believe I'm creating a FR deity. Given, some of the Manuals I'm sure would be of great assitance into ideas and suggestions, but it is of course out of my reach...
Edit: I should have said this in my topic starter poster, but I am trying to create an RPG'esk thing. If you haven't guessed. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
Edited by - Neriandal Freit on 17 Dec 2004 17:56:55 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 18:16:46
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I did not try to indicate belief you were adding a FR deity, just advised that you might exaime that system or others.
Basic annswer is still the same, select the powers first you want in the world, then decide how to devide up the power.
You can start with three or six (The Greek model) of highest powered dieties.
The Greeks the males divide, sky, sea and death, the females fertility, marriage and beauty (IIRC), then as children or half children came along some asspects were divided up. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 18:41:47
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None of the published D&D pantheons are realistically credible compared to our-world mythologies and a relative few fictional ones, including, in the RPG field, Greg Stafford's Glorantha and M.A.R. Barker's Tekumel.
It really takes genius to do the latter -- to act as the creative equivalent of a people, as the well-known Tolkien quote goes. If you want to fake something close, read a lot of mythology, a lot about mythology, internalize its processes and repeat them. Or are you after D&D-style gods with 'portfolios' etc.? |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 20:48:04
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Yes and no on the portfolio thing. I'm trying to think and find ways that I can do something simalair, but not exactly that.
I do realize it takes a genius to be the people. Quiet interesting though :)
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"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2004 : 23:43:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
Yes and no on the portfolio thing. I'm trying to think and find ways that I can do something simalair, but not exactly that.
I do realize it takes a genius to be the people. Quiet interesting though :)
Well I am over 70,000 people at times and many hate Kentinal (for some odd reason ;-) ) but I never had them invent a deity to get rid of him. Did not appear importantent enough. The gods concepts though that certainly exist in the realm is argicutural, healing, warfare ( Duke Kentinal has a rather large standing army), justice there certainly would be concern with weather (more so then just farming), though important for that). There also is a rather well organised thieves guild that might pray to another force.
Yes it is a small world, but what the people need and what the people need to blame tend to be the founding blocks of invented gods.
BD&D ran with five basic concepts, including decay. That model might often be considered. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 02:31:11
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So you're thinking up of deities to control your world.
You could go the general way and create deities that control the elements, life and death...
or
Do it like a character creation, pull names out of a hat, assign their roles and roll the dice to get their stats. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 02:36:06
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Oooops, forgot to mention that you'd have to use something like 20 or 50 sided die and times the total by 5 or 10 otherwise any weakling mortal would beat the crap out of your gods if they every got into a conflict.  |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 16:24:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
and I hate Greyhawk deities
[...]
you know the lich in Forgotten realms
Err... why, and what?
Yeah, I was wondering that, too. So far as I know, Vecna has never had a thing to do with the Realms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 18:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
and I hate Greyhawk deities
[...]
you know the lich in Forgotten realms
Err... why, and what?
Yeah, I was wondering that, too. So far as I know, Vecna has never had a thing to do with the Realms.
The only connection that Vecna has to the Realms that I know of, is through the god Mellifleur... but even that connection is tenuous at best  .
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 18:59:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The only connection that Vecna has to the Realms that I know of, is through the god Mellifleur... but even that connection is tenuous at best .
Refresh my memory on who Mellifleur is? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2004 : 19:29:32
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| Mellifleur, the deity of liches |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2004 : 23:15:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
But which has dominion over the tableware and ale mugs? ;-)
As these are crafted items, that would be Gond.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 01:58:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The only connection that Vecna has to the Realms that I know of, is through the god Mellifleur... but even that connection is tenuous at best .
Refresh my memory on who Mellifleur is?
The myth of Mellifleur's origin is that he was an ancient wizard (of unspecified race) who was attempting to become a lich, but who somehow synched with the divine energies an evil god or gods had been using to raise a servant (or servants) to godhood, and inadvertantly stole them, becoming a god in the intended's place.
According to Monster Mythology, Mellifleur seems to trade blows with his enemies through avatars, instead of either side actively going for the true god behind the avatars.
Monster Mythology certainly lends enough credence to the possibility that there is a link between Mellifleur and Velsharoon... their methods of ascension have great similarities between them.
However, I can find no mention of Velsharoon as a possible alias for Mellifleur in either Faiths and Avatars (but that should have been obvious), Faiths and Pantheons, or the aforementioned Monster Mythology.
I can go on if you wish...?
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 02:13:17
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And now comes my fun challenge of creating such things for my gods, demi gods, and all that fun stuff.
So if I am reading all of these posts correctly, there are two Liche Gods in FR? I roughly try and get ideas on how many deities to what type of person, Liche as an example, I might want and all that stuff. Usually I try not and copy them though, but it is a writers right to steal little things isn't it ;) lol.
I do know there is over 50 Human gods, which is quite large. Given Ed did take a few from Earth (Mielikki example.)
Not to get off my topic much...But FR was roughly introuduced to use 25, 30 years ago correct? Thats when I'd say Cher was huge and everything. Has anyone ever tried and make the connect between Cher and Shar? They sound to much alike to me, and I'm sure Shar has a few Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves following her around. It's something I've wondered a little bit now...either way intresting'esk. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 03:40:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The only connection that Vecna has to the Realms that I know of, is through the god Mellifleur... but even that connection is tenuous at best .
Refresh my memory on who Mellifleur is?
The myth of Mellifleur's origin is that he was an ancient wizard (of unspecified race) who was attempting to become a lich, but who somehow synched with the divine energies an evil god or gods had been using to raise a servant (or servants) to godhood, and inadvertantly stole them, becoming a god in the intended's place.
According to Monster Mythology, Mellifleur seems to trade blows with his enemies through avatars, instead of either side actively going for the true god behind the avatars.
Monster Mythology certainly lends enough credence to the possibility that there is a link between Mellifleur and Velsharoon... their methods of ascension have great similarities between them.
However, I can find no mention of Velsharoon as a possible alias for Mellifleur in either Faiths and Avatars (but that should have been obvious), Faiths and Pantheons, or the aforementioned Monster Mythology.
I can go on if you wish...?
Nope, you have informed me quite well, thank you.
I shall (when I have time) have to grab out my copy of Monster Mythology and look this gent up. It's been like 2 years since I even flipped thru that book... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 03:43:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
Not to get off my topic much...But FR was roughly introuduced to use 25, 30 years ago correct? Thats when I'd say Cher was huge and everything. Has anyone ever tried and make the connect between Cher and Shar? They sound to much alike to me, and I'm sure Shar has a few Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves following her around. It's something I've wondered a little bit now...either way intresting'esk.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence... Though some of Cher's music has made me wonder if she's an evil goddess of darkness and loss.  |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 03:45:13
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Hmmm...Cher...Shar....NAH!
Adding deities to FR could start with filling out the various schools of magic as lesser powers under Azuth. We already have Necromancy (Velsharoon) and Divination (Savras). Why not go from there?
In a campaign I once played in, one of my characters was promoted to being the God of Magical Artifice, who was a sort of go-between for Mystra and Gond. He created new magic items and spells. Just a thought.
When creating deities for your own world, you should look at what the people of your world value. Not monetarily, but morally and/or physically. The broadest topics would become your Greater Powers, then work your way down, being more specific as you go.
Hope it helps! |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:01:39
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Melfius has hit it right on there. I know in a world I am working on (not for gaming) that the Gods prooved to be a bit tough. Until I went in from the angle that the people there were used to various types of war and are commonly woodsmen or hunters.
So I went with the angle of more miltant and nature based gods over any other kind. I assigned about three major dieties and then placed smaller ones under the major ones to create a kind of Heiarchy or Beuracrocy (sp?).
Granted I have failed to explian this well but I think you get the idea. As to mythology of the gods I did what everyone who tries this does..borrowed from real world myth and made my own alterations as needed.
So far so good. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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Deity Creating - Tips?
