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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:30:05
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Thanks, psycho-otter!
Also, you may want to decide if you want your deities to be overseeing concepts, or actual tangibles. The difference between a god of Love or a god of Birth. There's gods of professions (Gond), gods of events (like War). Look at the different pantheons here in human history. The gods of the Native Americans are alot different than the Greeks.
Also, who says you have to have a polytheistic setting? Even today, there are few pantheons worshipped, most have moved to monotheistic (one god) religions.
Or, like in the Realms, there could be several penatheons, depending on the region and the beliefs of the region. The Faerūnian Pantheon is the most all-inclusive, but regions like Mulhorand/Unther borrow heavily from Egyptian, Maztica is mostly Axtec/Mayan/Inca (Qotal is Quetzelcoatl), Kara-Tur is Asian. Each has their own flavor.
When I created my world, I used abstracts like love, then but things like passion, lust, marriage as lesser deities answerable to the greater deity of Love. Then, to round them out, I made sure the opposite concepts were also represented. Thus, I had Hate followed by rage, jealousy, and ultimately murder.
But, again, that's just my opinion.  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:41:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Melfius
Also, who says you have to have a polytheistic setting? Even today, there are few pantheons worshipped, most have moved to monotheistic (one god) religions.
Well the question asked was for gods for at least different races and perhaps powers. As for today IRL I dispute the assertiion that one diety is worshiped or even followed by most people, the sub-groups are so diverse that those one the one G-d claim others of the same G-d (and source material) are not a true believer. There are also unofficial myths that deify prophets, helpmates , etc. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 04:45:29
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Well, the largest religions are monotheistic. But what do I know? I'm a Discordian!
Anyways, another idea would be, borrowing from another, well-know religion, the idea of one God, but with several saints who are patron of different areas. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 05:08:14
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The lesser saints or angels of the monotheistic religions, serve as lessor deities in their own right and all of them have at least minor powers. As a template certainly one can look to one powerful deity, but most have that. The only difference I can see between monotheistic and polytheistic religion is calling the lessor powers deities.
I am trying to avoid a religious debate, just trying to indidicate that from where I stand I do not see a majority believing in one deity, not matter which major class of religion you select. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 08:35:27
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Aww, don't worry about it. I'm not wanting a debate either!  |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 10:49:34
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Kentinal, on the subject of Real Life religions, please check to see if you are using correct terms before going on about such things. As one of the people you were just talking about, I apparently know quite a bit more. I'm not insulted or anything -- it's just that many people find this a touchy-to-the-point-of-condemnation subject (i.e., "If you don't do it my way, you're not right!"). I've no wish to see anyone snapped at for being idiots, which is why I like to spread education.  (An outmoded concept these days, it seems.  )
On the topic, as I mentioned on here a long while back, I'd made a minor effort to take the patron saints and assign possible D&D domains to them. The idea of this system was that while all divine power flowed from God, and the domains didn't actually belong to the saints, clerics who closely identified themselves with a particular saint would be more likely to choose particular domains. For instance, St. Michael the Archangel is the patron of policement, guards, and soldiers. Obviously, he'd be associated with War, Law, and Protection (and as an archangel, likely with Celestial). St. Francis would be associated with Animal; St. Tomas Aquinas with Knowledge; and of course, St. Brendan with Travel. Others are more tricky -- St. Patrick, for example, would depend greatly on whether you wished to emphasize his role as a folk hero or on what we know he actually did. (Animal and Exorcism would be likely for the first, while Community and Travel would be more in tune with the latter.)
On the whole, you could conceivably pick any domain you wanted that was on God's list (more on that in a moment), but you could be certain that if you followed the teachings of a particular saint, your selection of domains would likely be far more limited than if you were a "generalist" (a Christian cleric with no particular saintly ties, which wouldn't be required at all).
God's list is basically anything non-evil in nature. While most clerics would tend to Law, Chaos would still be permitted (and would often be considered a recognition of how far God is beyond us that we can only perceive Him by freeing our minds of worldly orders). This version would not be seen as the direct antithesis of Law. However, the Chaos of Satan would be, as it would be more in tune with the D&D concept of the Law/Chaos axis. In this D&Dified version, Satan can grant power, but not easily; most satanists would turn to wizardry for power (borrowing heavily from The Book of Vile Deeds).
Now, let's move from Real Life to a completely fantasy setting. Not much changes, on the face of it. However, what you'll find in this type of system are two things. Either you have one overgod with minigods per pantheon (however many there are; in the above, there'd technically be two, even though there'd only be one God), or you have different aspects of the same god granting different powers.
The latter might be confusing, but only on the face of it. Take a nature god. This god could be a god of the harvest, weather, earth, air, water, animals, plants, and even family. And each aspect could be flipped: famine, storms, blood hunts, monsters, etc. Each aspect could present different feat selections as well as a mound of roleplaying differences. (Characters crying "heretic" at one another would only be scratching the surface.)
In the pantheon version, you'd get a balance between this and the standard D&D version. That is, you'd have a nature god with minor gods controling each aspect; the overgod would tend to neutral, while the subordinates would likely squabble amongst themselves (the lawful good deity of good harvests versus the chaotic evil deity of famine and hunger, with the neutral deity of plants caught in the middle). |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 13:50:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Kentinal, on the subject of Real Life religions, please check to see if you are using correct terms before going on about such things. As one of the people you were just talking about, I apparently know quite a bit more. I'm not insulted or anything -- it's just that many people find this a touchy-to-the-point-of-condemnation subject (i.e., "If you don't do it my way, you're not right!"). I've no wish to see anyone snapped at for being idiots, which is why I like to spread education. (An outmoded concept these days, it seems. )
*shrugs*
The terms are correct, saints are prayed to by many for things like travel and so on. When/if they grant such requests prehaps flow though the one true source. From an objective view point indeed most "monothist" religions do indeed have deities.
Of course your post certainly appears to be a flame, and hardly educational.
You claim to know more then me, you say I use the wrong terms, and you imply that I am an idiot that might get snapped at.
" Inflected Forms deities
Definition 1.a god or goddess. Crossref. Syn. holy , idol
Definition 2.the essential character, nature, or condition of a god; divinity.
Definition 3.someone or something worshiped as a god. Example Power is his deity.
Definition 4.(cap.) God."
Edit: corrected a typo and tried to fix post format.
Returning to Wordsmyth (an online dictionary) I find this.
polytheism = 1.the belief in more than one god.
monotheism = 1.the belief that there is only one supreme being.
Perhaps it was not the best resource to use as many polytheist religions do have one god over the others.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 21 Dec 2004 07:48:38 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 14:18:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Of course your post certainly appears t be a flame, and hardly educational.
You claim to know more then me, you say I use the wrong terms, and you imply that I am an idiot that might get snapped at.
Kentinal,
Bookwyrm's post was many things. However, it was not a flame or labeling you as quoted above. Rather, Bookwyrm within his first sentence used the word please in attempting to steer the conversation away from a topic that can quickly erupt into a flame war.
SB |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 15:00:08
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| I would like to apologize for my part in this situation. It won't happen again. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 16:25:50
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Well, there has only been one thing that I have tooken really so far from Real Life Religion. I think I was watching History channel or something and they where talking about God or something, or I think the Angels, and how there are like several layers of angels, say from your Angel, to your UberDuperSuperAngel right below God. So I was thinking something like that I could play into for a couple dozen of the pantheons deities (Not just Human, Elf, etc.etc.)
Shar is Cher. Cher is Shar. The names just sound to much alike to me. I'm sorry. But they are one in the same. Or at least, Ed was inspired by the Later 70's/80's Cher to form Shar.
Yes, another question I have been wondering. How many Realms are there in the DnD/FR world? I know of Material, Shadow, Water, Earth, Air, Fire (Forget the other one I know), but I know the list continues for some time. Anyone know of a decent amount of them?
Edit: I forgot to say that I forget the name of the Angel-Being under god. SO no one take offesne to the UberSuperDuperAngel thing  |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
Edited by - Neriandal Freit on 20 Dec 2004 16:29:36 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 06:20:56
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| Kentinal, you did get terms wrong, and I tried to point things out without dragging things off-topic. I did it in a friendly way. It's up to you if you want to take offense at what I say. But if you do, it's only fair to warn you that I come well-armed with religous facts, and while I don't wear my religion on my sleave, it's very much a part of who I am. Start insulting it, and I get less and less nice. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 08:06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Slime Lord
Yes, another question I have been wondering. How many Realms are there in the DnD/FR world? I know of Material, Shadow, Water, Earth, Air, Fire (Forget the other one I know), but I know the list continues for some time. Anyone know of a decent amount of them?
"Material Plane: The Material Plane tends to be the most Earthlike of all planes and operates under the same set of natural laws that our own real world does. This is the default plane for most adventures.
Transitive Planes: These three planes have one important common characteristic: Each is used to get from one place to another. The Astral Plane is a conduit to all other planes, while the Ethereal Plane and the Plane of Shadow both serve as means of transportation within the Material Plane theyre connected to. These planes have the strongest regular interaction with the Material Plane and are often accessed by using various spells. They have native inhabitants as well.
Inner Planes: These six planes are manifestations of the basic building blocks of the universe. Each is made up of a single type of energy or element that overwhelms all others. The natives of a particular Inner Plane are made of the same energy or element as the plane itself.
Outer Planes: The deities live on the Outer Planes, as do creatures such as celestials, demons, and devils. Each of the Outer Planes has an alignment, representing a particular moral or ethical outlook, and the natives of each plane tend to behave in agreement with that planes alignment. The Outer Planes are also the final resting place of souls from the Material Plane, whether that final rest takes the form of calm introspection or eternal damnation.
Demiplanes:This catch-all category covers all extradimensional spaces that function like planes but have measurable size and limited access. Other kinds of planes are theoretically infinite in size, but a demiplane might be only a few hundred feet across."
The 6 inner planes consist of Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Positive and Negitive. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 13:25:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Each of the Outer Planes has an alignment, representing a particular moral or ethical outlook, and the natives of each plane tend to behave in agreement with that planes alignment.
While that's true for nearly every Outer Plane, the Outlands (or Concordat Opposition) is characterised by the fact that it has no alignment. It is home to deities of neutrality, petitioners of the non-aligned, and the Rilmani... keepers of the Balance and the exemplar race of all-things-neutral.
It should be noted that individual choice shifts a strictly neutral position to either good or evil, law or chaos. Such is the way of the Outer Planes.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 21 Dec 2004 13:26:47 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 14:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
While that's true for nearly every Outer Plane, the Outlands (or Concordat Opposition) is characterised by the fact that it has no alignment. It is home to deities of neutrality, petitioners of the non-aligned, and the Rilmani... keepers of the Balance and the exemplar race of all-things-neutral.
The hazard of quoting from the SRD. At least you corrected error. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 16:34:47
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i'm talking about vecna;
the guy that lost one hand and one eye!
even his symbol is a hand holding an eye!!!!!!!
am i wrong in all this,
i thought he was a forgotten realms character |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 16:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Alparon
i'm talking about vecna;
the guy that lost one hand and one eye!
even his symbol is a hand holding an eye!!!!!!!
am i wrong in all this,
i thought he was a forgotten realms character
Well it is risky to say never so might have appeared in FR, however he was more featured in Greyhawk and Ravenloft. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 00:13:28
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| To my knowldge Vecna has never appeared in FR. As a side not his appearance in Ravenloft was hotly contested and has been ignored as far as several fans go. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36880 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 00:30:05
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| I'll agree on the Vecna thing: to the best of my knowledge, he's not had any contact with or presence in the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 20:35:14
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but but.........
i was so sure
they even sold his robe in Baldur's Gate 2!! |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 21:33:20
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| Well, is that the PS or PC game? I'm presuming PC game due to me never have seeing that in BG2DA PS |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Alparon
Seeker
Turkey
67 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 23:42:13
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da PC game
is there a PS game(i've heard of BG3 many times) |
I am Cyric, the One and the All, God of Murder and Intrigue, Patron of Deception and Chaos, Prince of Lies, the Dark Sun, rightful Lord of the Dead, Cyric-on-a-stick, and known to some as "the Mad God." I welcome you to The Land of the Dead... |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 00:41:15
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Yes. There is a PS2 games for it. You have Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance, and Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance 2. Baldurs Gate 3 is in the works. The guy who keeps an eye on the Rasalvatore.com boards has seen screen shots and says it is quiet good looking.
I do like these two games, but others do not for they say it isn't like the PC Games. Which, I will agree with, for the PC games seems to have more in them then the PS games.
First Dark Alliance isn't as well as the Second one. First one is just laying the ground work and getting you into it. Second one is tieing up some loose ends, and finding out you have bigger ones. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 01:16:43
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Velsharoon is Millifleur since Powers & Pantheons lists that as his alias.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 24 Dec 2004 01:30:18 |
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Melfius
Senior Scribe
USA
516 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 01:25:07
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| Thanks, kuje. I thought that he was, but couldn't find my book to check. |
Melfius, Pixie-Priest of Puck - Head Chef, The Faerie Kitchen, Candlekeep Inn
"What's in his pockets, besides me?"
Read a tale of my earlier days! - Happiness Comes in Small Packages |
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Deity Creating - Tips?
