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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 14:09:02
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A Grand Tour of the Realms
Cormyr: King Arthur's England (without the french satire)
Tashalar: Pirates of the Carribean
Chult: The Lost World
The Dragon Coast: Sinbad
Northmen of Moonshaes: Normay, Viking Culture
Tuigan Army: The Huns, and Gengis Kahn
Rasheman: Russia, Finland
Anauroch: Arabic Culture, particularily amoung the Bedine
Unther: Mesopotamia/Sumeria
Chessenta: Ancient Greece
Mulhrondi: Ancient Egpyt
Amn: Italian mercantile city (Mevieval/Renaissance Venitia)
Tethyr: Moorish Spain, northern southern mix
Erlkazar: Scotland w/ moorish influence
Calimshan: Medieval Turkey and Byzantine Empire
Lake of Steam states and Bordern kingdoms: Crusader states
Dalelands: Wales, pre-english occupation
Editted for Webmanus
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"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
Edited by - Sir Luther Cromwell on 29 Aug 2005 18:39:19
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Rhezarnos
Learned Scribe
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Malaysia
131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 14:17:45
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| Does Rasheman and their similarities with Norse culture count? |
Playing a winged dwarf with acrophobia is fun. |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 14:20:04
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| I would see the Norse more in the Northmen of the Moonshaes. The Moonsheas also resembling the Celtic cultures and Druidic beliefs of the British Isles and Ireland. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 15:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
I would see the Norse more in the Northmen of the Moonshaes. The Moonsheas also resembling the Celtic cultures and Druidic beliefs of the British Isles and Ireland.
As a descendant of said norsemen I'll echo this, the Rashemi are more akin to the eastern neighbours of the Scandinavian and Finnish peoples - the Russians. And much like the scandinavian influence on early Russia (the country's name and early princes for instance), the Rus of ancient Rashemen who descnded from Ruathym (remember that the tales about them in Elaine Cunningham's books are old tales) didn't so much replace the local culture with their own as added a few bits of folklore and customs of their own to an already existing culture. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 16:38:20
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| Excactly... When you look at the description of the Northmen from Moonshae there is a great resemblence to the old vikings of the north (Denmark, Sweden and norway). They use the very typical long-boat, developed by the vikings of northern europe when they raid the Moonshaes (like the vikings did when they raided Britain). But i think in general that all of these historical adaptations is a strength because it makes it easier to relate to and picture the settings when you are playing. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 17:59:22
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quote:
But i think in general that all of these historical adaptations is a strength because it makes it easier to relate to and picture the settings when you are playing.
Well said Faramicos! Personally, I as a DM find that developing the ability to speak in many different accents helps for this same purpose.
Another one I just thought of was the Tuigan Army and the Hordelands. Gengis Kahn invaded most of asia and eastern europe.
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"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 18:47:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Forge
I would see the Norse more in the Northmen of the Moonshaes. The Moonsheas also resembling the Celtic cultures and Druidic beliefs of the British Isles and Ireland.
I agree. I envision the Northmen of the Moonshaes as very much like the vikings, particularly as envisioned in The 13th Warrior. Rashemi barbarians would probably have many similar characteristics, but they're not really a seafaring people, which I think would set them apart. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
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Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 22:40:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Luther Cromwell
Some I can think of are:
Cormyr: King Arthur (without the french satire)
Tashalar: Pirates of the Carribean (sp?)
Chult: The Lost World
The Dragon Coast: Sinbad
That's an interesting set. WHy did you pick Sinbad the Sailor for the Dragon Coast? I think it works, but I would not have thought of that.
I ran a campaign in Amn for a while, and I read non fiction books on Moorish spain, and some of the Knightly Orders from Cordoba. Also for Amn and even Waterdeep, I developed alot of characters by studying Florence Italy.
Florence Italy seems to be the closest medieval equivalent to Waterdeep. A merchant city state with a very powerful army. Studying the Medici family may help in giving insight into the Noble families of Waterdeep.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2005 : 23:09:11
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quote:
WHy did you pick Sinbad the Sailor for the Dragon Coast? I think it works, but I would not have thought of that.
Think about it. Pirates, mystic creatures in the streets, cut throat attitude, near the water, sea monsters.
So we have to far:
Cormyr: King Arthur
Moonsea: Viking Areas (Norway, Finland, etc.)
Chult: The Lost World
Anauroch: Dune
Tuigan Army: The Huns
The Dragon Coast: Sinbad
Amn: Moorish Spain
Waterdeep: Florence Italy/industrial Britain
There's bound to be more. Another, Mulhrondi is obviously egypt. But what about Chessenta? Or Unther? |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 01:04:02
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Impiltur, for better or for worse, I see as the Crusader States of the Middle East after they first wrested Jerusalem from 'the infidel'. Religion and politics becoming intertwined and surrounded by foes from within and without.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 02:44:35
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Unther is pretty obviously the near east Mesopotamia/Sumeria in the Fertile Crescent (Tigris Euphrates... BABYLON... modern day Baghdad)
Chessenta is Ancient Greece according to the old first edition OLD EMPIRES.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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ode904
Learned Scribe
Finland
193 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 22:29:29
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By the way Rashemen is much like Finland:
Sauna(we invented it)
The odd thing Liriel meet in her house(Don't know the word in english, is it elf too? )
The Culture
In the 13th-16th centuries finnish mercenaries in northern Europe had a fame like Rashemens soldiers.
And the pirates in Sword Coast are much like th Caribbeans pirates
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2005 : 22:44:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Luther Cromwell
quote:
WHy did you pick Sinbad the Sailor for the Dragon Coast? I think it works, but I would not have thought of that.
Think about it. Pirates, mystic creatures in the streets, cut throat attitude, near the water, sea monsters.
So we have to far:
Cormyr: King Arthur
Moonsea: Viking Areas (Norway, Finland, etc.)
Chult: The Lost World
Anauroch: Dune
Tuigan Army: The Huns
The Dragon Coast: Sinbad
Amn: Moorish Spain
Waterdeep: Florence Italy/industrial Britain
There's bound to be more. Another, Mulhrondi is obviously egypt. But what about Chessenta? Or Unther?
Amn--Italian city-states and mercantilism
Tethyr--Moorish Spain and mix of southern and northern...
Erlkazar--Imagine Scotland with Moorish/Tethyrian influences...
Calimshan--Medieval Turkey and Byzantine Empire
The Lake of Steam states & The Border Kingdoms--Crusader states...
I've always looked at the eastern coast of the Inner Sea as a mish-mash of cultures with a heavy Balkan/Russian influence in most areas south of Impiltur proper down to Thay. Elaine can correct me here if I'm off base....
Remember that most of these places are inspired by but not slavishly detailed to match. Those places that are almost straight historical pickup tend to be the ones tacked on when Ed, Jeff, Julia, or I wasn't looking. 
Steven
Who'd love to sink his fingers into the Maztican continent to twist that stuff so it's less a direct pastiche of Cortez/Aztec and make it something unique...and Realmsian....
PS: Whaddya think of a pseudo-Incan mountain culture that worships Cthulhoid type nasties? Figure that comes from a mixture of connections through the Underdark and the only way in/out of their major cities (which are even more isolated than mountain top places like Masada...).
PPS: All right, enough riffing and brainstorming. Time to get me home.... Have a good weekend all.... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 19:40:21
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Yeah, I think it is one thing to know that a setting has areas that resemble the real world, in culture, weapons, monster, etc, and to go the extra step and to start making similar events happen at similar times with similar outcomes, well, that just shifts things from "this culture is like X, now add D&D/FR influences" to "This culture is almost just like X, and this NPC is almost just like X . . . " which draws you out of the setting's "feel."
While the Moonshaes didn't always feel "Realmsian" at first, it was more due to the fact that it was isolated, and in fact I felt that the second trilogy was indeed much more tied to the Realms and had a better feel to it. But the idea that not only did we have an Aztec region but we also had a Cortez, and not only did we have a Mongolian region, but we had a Ghengis Khan, started to strain things a bit.
I think we want our Realmsian cultural identification a lot like we want our Mexican and Itallian food in this country . . . similar but with a lot of things added on that a native would not think of using in the dish.
Oh, and I almost forgot, I loved Steven's idea about sticking a Cthulhu-esqe worshipping cult into Maztica . . . I may have to work out something similar if my party ever decides to venture across the the sea to the other continent. |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 06 Aug 2005 19:41:56 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 19:54:55
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Since Doug Niles's Moonshaes were developed independently from the Realms, it's no surprise they don't feel like the Realms.quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think we want our Realmsian cultural identification a lot like we want our Mexican and Itallian food in this country . . . similar but with a lot of things added on that a native would not think of using in the dish.
There are elements of Realms nations reminiscent of Earth ones, but apart from the bolted-on places, I don't think there are one-to-one identifications that are anything like as close as you suggest. And while these comparisons can be helpful for DMs if we realize how slight and partial they are, I would never suggest them to players. |
Edited by - Faraer on 06 Aug 2005 19:56:33 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 20:04:59
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| Actually I wasn't suggesting anything was close to real world culture other than the comments that fellow scribes had made earlier in this topic. |
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ode904
Learned Scribe
Finland
193 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2005 : 22:40:59
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This came to my mind last morning:
Netheril= Empire of Rome?(mighty, but ancient kingdom)
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2005 : 19:47:28
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quote:
Originally posted by ode904
This came to my mind last morning:
Netheril= Empire of Rome?(mighty, but ancient kingdom)
The only problem with something that broadly defined is that in that case Netheril=Han China, Assyria, Ancient Persia, and so on.
I do believe Steven Schend has said that he used the Roman Empire as one inspiration for the Shoon Empire though. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Kajehase on 07 Aug 2005 19:47:46 |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 01:28:57
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Not to mention, Netheril was a very inward empire, where as Rome was very outward (conquering, exploring, etc). If you ask me, Netheril is not a historical tie is but a theme that is commonly shown in many fantasy and science fiction stories. Man can never control the heavens, and the very fabric of existance. If he attempts to, everything becomes unstable. Unfortunately, man also often has the desire to create gods, or in this case become one.
quote:
Yeah, I think it is one thing to know that a setting has areas that resemble the real world, in culture, weapons, monster, etc, and to go the extra step and to start making similar events happen at similar times with similar outcomes, well, that just shifts things from "this culture is like X, now add D&D/FR influences" to "This culture is almost just like X, and this NPC is almost just like X . . . " which draws you out of the setting's "feel."
Yes this is something that DM's need to be careful about. Also, what needs to be remebered is that Faerun isn't a historical setting: It's a fantasy setting! Myths and fantasies themselves simply have historical aspects to them due to the origin of the myth.
At the top I will be sort of 'updating' the original post so that it gives a list of all ideas so far.
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"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
Edited by - Sir Luther Cromwell on 09 Aug 2005 00:12:10 |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 01:47:38
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The top is updated! So far these ideas as awesome, and if anyone as any sort of opposition with the list up top, please do tell!
Also, does anybody know of ancient myths, tales and fantasies that seem to have been of some insipration? |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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ode904
Learned Scribe
Finland
193 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 21:53:50
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Ok. Agreed.
ONly problem was i didn't know about Shoon Empire:)
But yes a list of these would be nice, keep thinking on this |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2005 : 22:27:24
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| Sir Luther . . . I know you don't mean anything by it, and you are going for the whole inquisition angle, but seeing Thay=Vatican is a little hard for a practicing Catholic to take . . . |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 00:07:44
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quote:
Sir Luther . . . I know you don't mean anything by it, and you are going for the whole inquisition angle, but seeing Thay=Vatican is a little hard for a practicing Catholic to take . . .
 Whoa whoa, holy roothe droppings, really sorry. Here, consider it as good as changed. I really didn't mean to offend anyone, I really didn't. I honestly didn't mean to imply ANYTHING about praticing catholics, or modern day catholicism!
Oh man, I honestly wasn't thinking someone would get offended! Let me just say, Catholics are DEFINATELY not the stereotype a lot of people give them, and that they are a religion founded on good morals (More like LG than LE)! I was only trying to look at a historical point of view, but once again I got carried away. I know that the spanish inquisition ISN'T an accurate represenation of catholicism itself.
So once again, I'm so sorry! I honestly didn't mean to offend you! |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
Edited by - Sir Luther Cromwell on 09 Aug 2005 00:17:44 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 00:18:34
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| Sorry, Luthor, I really didn't want to come off too harsh, just wanted to point that out. Hope you didn't think I was having a kinipshin or anything, I just don't picture Sasz Tamm wearing a red flaming papal hat either, lol. |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 00:25:02
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Another one I just thought of. The story of King Arthur I believe takes place after Cyrmu (whales) was invaded by england under the king Edward the Longshanks (correct, any celtic readers?).
I also did some reading up on Cymru and read that it used to be a mesh of different groups of people, almost like 'dales' (hint hint). Whales as a high affiliation with dragons (their flag has a red dragon on it), and I know the dalelands used to be hunted by dragons (as was Cormyr).
So, how's the possibility that Cormyr is Cyrmu after the English occupation, and The Dalelands are Cyrmu before it? (hence the higher number of humans in Cormyr than in the Dalelands). Not to mention, Dalelands archers are supposed to be the BEST archers out there. I've heard many a historian argue that England had the best archers, when really anyone with some welsh backgroung (which is do slightly) knows that the fabled 'english archers' were really a bunch of welshmen. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
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Misericordia
Seeker
Italy
66 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 12:20:10
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I think that Cormyr isn't inspired by feudal states, but to the vision of the monarchy as seen in XV century culture (with Arturian based myths), and to the national states system.
So we have an absolut monarchy, but a non-feudal aristocracy.
Nobles tend to influence the Crown at the Royal Court (House Crownsilver), are involved in commerce (House Bleth, keeper of Seven Suns Trading Company), big land-owners (House Cormaeril). Nobles gets all important places in bureocracy, but they don't have the cities government, that like in absolut-states is under control of King-nominated lords (as a matter of fact feudalism works good until cities are few e low populated, and people is more involved in country)
So I see Cormyr more like England in XV century. |
Omnia sunt communia. |
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Sir Luther Cromwell
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 15:40:27
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Good meeting, Misericordia
Yes, actually I'd say I agree: arthur's camelot tried to put more emphasis on freedom of speech than more other nations of its time, and we all know how Cormyrians love their freedom of speech.
I was just thinking that The Dalelands was Cymru before arthur and english occupation.
Now I'm just wondering what any of the authors think of this list. |
"At what temperature does a Goblin boil?"
"Any Rakshasa should eat a healthy diet that is high in wood elf, and low in shield Dwarf. One must always watch those cholesterol levels."
"If a Svirfneblin falls in the underdark, does anybody care?" |
Edited by - Sir Luther Cromwell on 09 Aug 2005 15:41:53 |
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webmanus
Learned Scribe
Sweden
338 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 17:31:10
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Wales ... longbows ... Dalelands ... yes, could be ... but ... I have no special knowledge about Wales, and Cyrmu/Cymru... never heard about it. When elaborating the Dalelands, I decided some long time ago to go for Sweden 12th-century -- 13th-century ... just to have something to work with ...
But, Cormyr and the Dalelands ... beeing neighbors ... very good point ... England - Wales ... And, the Dalesmen had once a king ... makes me think on the Celtic/Ireland High Kings ... Blast me ... there sinks my Swedish Dalelands  |
Link to my homepage: http://user.tninet.se/~bsu242v/ |
Edited by - webmanus on 09 Aug 2005 17:43:46 |
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Misericordia
Seeker
Italy
66 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2005 : 17:47:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Luther Cromwell
Another one I just thought of. The story of King Arthur I believe takes place after Cyrmu (whales) was invaded by england under the king Edward the Longshanks
Probably Arthurian tales are placed in the 6° century, just after roman retreat from Britain.
Arthur himself is probably based on late roman-celt chief, who defended his land against saxon invasion.
Cormyr-England and Dales-Wales looks fair good! Dalesmen are known for their fierce independentism, like welsh too. |
Omnia sunt communia. |
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Historical/Fictional Adaptations in the Realms
